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Jennifer Nocerino: Okay, we are at the top of the hour, so we are going to go ahead and get started, and for right now, if you're not muted, if you would go ahead and mute i'd really appreciate it.

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Jennifer Nocerino: First i'd like to turn the floor over to GSA is executive director vicki mcconnell to say a word or two and just welcome everyone vicki.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And vicki i'll be joining it there, she is your.

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Vicki McConnell: room, I had to I had to find the buttons this morning, so good morning everyone or good day I should say it's hard to tell what time it is and welcome to this virtual mentor.

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Vicki McConnell: Gathering meeting really tickled that you could make it in participate, a big thank you to the mentors and a big thank you to everyone that wants to to participate in this mentor activity.

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Vicki McConnell: i'm not going to say a lot I just also want to thank the Northeast section for continuing continuing to have the mentoring.

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Vicki McConnell: activities and programs, and I really, really, really, really look forward to seeing everyone in person at the Northeast meeting next year, the section meetings so.

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Vicki McConnell: stick with us, and I have a great time have asked ask those mentors hard questions that's what they're there for i'll turn it back over to you Jennifer and have a great meeting everyone.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much vicki I appreciate that and I just want to welcome everyone as well, and you are currently in the sleeman mentor Program.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And this is a GSA event and so please keep in mind that all GSA events we follow our rise code of conduct, so we ask you to be respectful and inclusive to everyone.

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Jennifer Nocerino: This group of mentors hopefully the screens are not quite as visible as I wanted, but i'm trying to convey two things I will in a little bit attach a handout to this group.

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Jennifer Nocerino: All of these individuals who are mentoring, for us, today this handout will have their contact information on it.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Networking is really important part of your professional career, and this is a really great way to network we are operating by questions only.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So the more questions you ask the better definitely but with that i'd like all of our mentors to introduce themselves and we'll go in the order that you see them on this slide so i'll be starting with Erica.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And each of our mentors will give a little bit of information about.

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Jennifer Nocerino: i've asked them to keep their introduction short, because we want lots of time for questions.

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Jennifer Nocerino: But at the same time it's important you know where they've worked before where they work now what their background is and that it's not always a straight line as you'll hear.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So one other thing now that we're getting started, I just want to point out, I kind of randomly I said this earlier but randomly selected mentors and.

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Jennifer Nocerino: The folks who joined us, you might notice the entire Group of mentors are all women, which is pretty awesome i'm really excited about that so with that why don't I turn it over to Erica.

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Erika Amir-Lin: All right, am I unmuted.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Okay, you are muted are unmuted and I can hear you.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Great the perils of having a name that starts with a.

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Erika Amir-Lin: that's fine so good morning everybody I guess it's noon I my body still doesn't know what time it is this morning.

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Erika Amir-Lin: But a little bit about me i'm happy to be here i've joined these mentoring events before normally in person, where we're all trying to stuff some lunch down, while we chat so.

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Erika Amir-Lin: This is a little bit better because i'm not chewing so my background i'm definitely one of those people that had a very path as Jennifer alluded to.

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Erika Amir-Lin: My original bachelor's degree was in geoscience I started out of college in working in environmental consulting as a field geologist and spent a few years, doing that did some geotechnical consulting, which is a similar kind of work feel geology mostly.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Then I went back to school to get a master's degree which actually ended up not working out for me life got in the way of finishing that but I did get to work at the usgs for a couple of years.

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Erika Amir-Lin: In the seismic hazards division and then I ended up back in environmental consulting for many years.

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Erika Amir-Lin: switching from contaminated sites to drinking water sites and then, more recently, just in the last year or so i've been working at the American waterworks association.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So I left consulting entirely and in the nonprofit sector now and what we do is we are we serve were membership organization that serves the entire drinking water sector so everyone from consultants to utilities to.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Service providers and in between, who is working on drinking water issues So yes, definitely a little bit of a non traditional path and spoiler I did go back and get a Masters degree eventually I graduated from umass lowell.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So.

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Erika Amir-Lin: The ripe old age of 39 so it's never too late to go back to school and I think that's probably just about all my time.

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Jennifer Nocerino: excellence and i'm sure you can all tell i'm probably i'm trying to put her information into our screen and you should have that now, at this point.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Good so you have Eric has contact information, along with her email address now in the chat box, so thank you very much Eric I appreciate that and next will be Janet Barclay from the usgs.

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Jennifer Nocerino: and

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Jennifer Nocerino: There you are yeah.

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Janet Barclay: yeah i'm here hi i'm Janet Barclay and I don't know I think those various pathways are more than norm than the exception because I also had a fairly varied pathway to where I am right now my undergraduate degree is in biomedical engineering with a concentration in chemical engineering.

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Janet Barclay: But when I graduated from undergrad I wasn't I really didn't know what I wanted to do and had spent a lot of time in during undergrad I was really involved in.

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Janet Barclay: A faith based campus ministry, and so I actually ended up after finishing undergrad working and Campus Ministry for about eight years and then worked at a church for a couple years.

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Janet Barclay: And then made this hundred and 80 degree career change, and I was, I remember media i'd had had thoughts of getting back vocationally to science at some point.

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Janet Barclay: But I was meeting with a career consultants and you know did all these different career assessments and things and she commented oh you're.

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Janet Barclay: My work trajectory through college she's like you know that's a little bit more in line with some of your natural skills than what you've been doing now, and although what i've been doing felt very purposeful I had this instant like Oh, I can be smart again.

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Janet Barclay: pop into my head followed with a like oh I should probably pay attention to that.

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Janet Barclay: So, at that point, I started doing Grad school applications went back to school got a master's in environmental engineering.

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Janet Barclay: i'm thinking at that point about sort of transferring that chemical engineering to the environmental context so did a bachelor's in engineering thought I would be getting a job in engineering consulting.

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Janet Barclay: That didn't quite work out and I ended up sort of having a PhD position sort of fall into my lap so I ended up going on getting a PhD and natural resources.

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Janet Barclay: finished that in my early 40s and now i'm working at as a hydrologists with the US geological survey I started with usgs during during my PhD so I overlapped little more than a year, at both of them and then how I graduated in spring of 2019.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Wonderful Thank you very much, I appreciate it, we will, if you have questions as we're going through and meeting all of our mentors please feel free to put those in the chat box, you now have all their contact information there as well.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So thank you Janet will speak with you again in just a few minutes and then Julia boils will be next and I don't see your camera yet, but Julia is with the Vermont geological survey.

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Julia Boyles: hi everybody hoping, you can hear me.

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Jennifer Nocerino: hear you I hear you and see.

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Julia Boyles: Okay, great we don't use zoom very much so we use Microsoft teams, so this is new.

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Julia Boyles: So hi everybody i'm Julia boyles geologists with the Vermont geological survey.

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Julia Boyles: i'm in my very early career, so this is my first job I haven't been anywhere else.

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Julia Boyles: Have a bachelor's in geology and i'm finishing up my masters, things were really delayed because of coven.

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Julia Boyles: So my Ms and geology is I just need to stamp this point so this waiting for that and yeah I overlap It took some breaks.

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Julia Boyles: And yes, also kind of had a weird I think this is normal had a weird introduction to geology I was actually in school for earth science, education and then decided.

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Julia Boyles: I really love like applied science, so I took just a straight.

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Julia Boyles: Excuse me geology path and then loved it even more, I decided to go get a Masters and then.

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Julia Boyles: thought I would go get a PhD after my master's work, I was like I don't think that's for me, so I.

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Julia Boyles: was in California, I wanted to return back home to the Northeast and on opening and at the Vermont survey and applied and miraculously they they took me so that's really it for my story I don't have much yet.

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Jennifer Nocerino: that's excellent and for everyone who's with us in this session.

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Jennifer Nocerino: I do try whenever possible to find folks who are early career, because you know clearly they're in a point where they're going through something similar to everyone who's out there, getting ready to look for a job so.

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Jennifer Nocerino: This is a really great place to ask questions about how did you get your job, what did you do to get there, you know was networking important and so forth So hopefully we can get into all of those questions.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you Julia so our next speaker is Lindsey Spiegel and she is with the main geological survey.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Everyone can you hear me.

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Jennifer Nocerino: I can, and I.

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Jennifer Nocerino: can see you as well, thanks Lindsay.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Was you never know with our Internet here, so if I disappear suddenly it's just because we're having a windstorm today so.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Anyway, my name is Lindsey Spiegel I am a geomorphologist and I conduct superficial mapping and landslide research at the main geological survey.

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Lindsay.Spigel: And i'm originally from Ohio I went to undergrad at Miami of Ohio and then I received my master's and PhD at university of Wisconsin Madison.

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Lindsay.Spigel: All of my degrees are actually in physical geography and with minors in geology um.

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Lindsay.Spigel: After Grad school I intended to work for a state survey or the usgs and but I ended up moving around quite a bit for my husband's job um so I taught a little bit until at the College level until we moved to maine.

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Lindsay.Spigel: And there wasn't a very good job market and Romaine period so um I had a couple of odd jobs and then I worked for a very, very small consulting firm for.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Just a year until I took a total detour and I worked in organic farming, research and plant breeding for about five years.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Until the job came open at the survey and I said well i'll just throw my hat in and see if I can get back into geology and i've been at the survey for about five years now.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks so much Lindsay and our last mentor is marjorie's F.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And Marjorie is with ATT COM.

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marjorie.zeff: Hello.

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marjorie.zeff: hi hi as opposed to Eric that has the last name, starting with a problem I have the last name, starting with Z problem always at the end.

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marjorie.zeff: hi i'm really happy to be here today.

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marjorie.zeff: My.

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marjorie.zeff: My interest in geology started in the Eighth grade when I took earth science and realized that people actually got paid to.

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marjorie.zeff: To have fun.

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marjorie.zeff: Looking at rocks speak and that really got me started on my interest, I went to the University of Rochester New York for a bachelor's degree.

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marjorie.zeff: I went straight after that to Duke university for my master's my interest always has been, coastal and marine geology and that's what I studied at at Duke.

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marjorie.zeff: But then, you know getting a job always.

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marjorie.zeff: gets no way, sometimes of pursuing exactly what you want to do so, I did get a job in Washington DC at the Carnegie institution of Washington.

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marjorie.zeff: Not working on costs to stuff working on moon rocks and asteroids and stuff like that, but there was research, it was asked where geology and it was.

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marjorie.zeff: It was very interesting, but then I decided, I wanted to.

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marjorie.zeff: Get back to my true love like I said, which is cool so so I got my PhD at rutgers university focusing on coast to New Jersey and salt marsh.

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marjorie.zeff: sedimentary processes in symmetry record.

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marjorie.zeff: of coastal areas and salt marshes, which was a good thing, because when I graduated from rutgers and was looking for a job again.

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marjorie.zeff: Environmental protection of wetlands was a big thing, so the fact that I had a doctorate in understanding how sort my shoes operate and work um got me my first job in environmental consulting and i've been environment to consulting ever since i've only worked in two companies.

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marjorie.zeff: Excuse me, I really love it in my view, there are various views of environmental consultants out there, my view always has been, to look at my job to make sure that.

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marjorie.zeff: The environment is being protected and actions on the environment.

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marjorie.zeff: follow the rules and follow the regulations and every action is supported with science.

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marjorie.zeff: scientific analysis that it is safe, and this is the way to go and make decisions, so I kind of look at myself as.

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marjorie.zeff: Trying to do good and apply my science to make sure the environment is protected.

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marjorie.zeff: So that's what I do now, and whenever I get the opportunity and i'm sure we'll talk about it more later i've trying apply my coastal and.

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marjorie.zeff: emory geology interests to two projects.

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marjorie.zeff: So that's that.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent Thank you so much Marjorie and for all of our mentors please feel free to turn on your cameras as we're answering questions so folks can see you.

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Jennifer Nocerino: But if you would like to keep it off or need to keep it off for bandwidth issues, please feel free to do that i'll be looking at the chat and posing all the questions to you.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So with that, for all of our student attendees this session is really driven by questions, so I have a lot of questions here.

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Jennifer Nocerino: When there's no questions in the chat we'll start going over this list, because these are some of the questions that we hear the most frequently.

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Jennifer Nocerino: But i'd like you to ask questions as well, I remember a really important part of your career is that working and.

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Jennifer Nocerino: that's really what finds you a job, more than anything, so this is a great chance to network and really get some questions answered from practicing geoscientists so please feel free to start writing things in the chat.

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Jennifer Nocerino: But let me go ahead and throw out there, so clearly you're all working and our students are always really interested in in what got you your job, you know, was it networking, or do you have a.

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Jennifer Nocerino: some suggestions for them on how they might go about getting that first job.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And so, for this, why don't we just turn to each of our mentors and I can just go through in order and how about I go backwards, this time and i'll start with Z.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And i'll end with a so Marjorie you gave us a little bit of information about what you felt really got you into you had two jobs and what got you into both of those jobs any tips or suggestions for students.

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marjorie.zeff: um whoa again I guess.

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marjorie.zeff: At least with.

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marjorie.zeff: Consulting if that's your pathway understanding what the what the market is, for example, right now, i'm in environmental protection, energy development is a big thing, whether it's offshore when resources or the development of solar.

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marjorie.zeff: energy resources pipelines which I know everyone she is probably aware of some of the environmental issues related to pipelines, those are things that will always be out there.

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marjorie.zeff: And so that's just an example of understanding what the market is if you're interested in environmental consulting.

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marjorie.zeff: Having a background that could serve those needs, clean drinking water is another.

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marjorie.zeff: avenue so understanding what the issues are that are employable, and having the skills to.

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marjorie.zeff: support those.

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marjorie.zeff: Those issues in whatever field you go into whether it's industry consulting or even academia.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks and i'd like to add in there that's for undergraduates who have joined us and actually.

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Jennifer Nocerino: It would be great for all the folks on our call if you could add in our chat whether you're an undergrad or Grad student or early career My guess is everyone should be students.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So either have undergrads or Grad so i'm guessing so go ahead and type that into the chat just so we know who our audience is.

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Jennifer Nocerino: But for those of you who are undergrads getting a job in consulting is a really great way to look if you decide, you want to take some time off between undergrad and graduate school environmental firms are very often looking for undergrads to come in and work right correct.

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Jennifer Nocerino: I agree.

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marjorie.zeff: I was just gonna say, especially if i'm when I went to school, even after I got my PhD I had no idea of the consulting world zero that's why this.

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marjorie.zeff: This forum is really wonderful.

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marjorie.zeff: There was so much opportunity and environmental consulting for all the different aspects of geology might be interested in and I had no idea um so um.

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marjorie.zeff: I forgot your question.

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Jennifer Nocerino: I think we covered it, I think, good.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Real quick and i'll pose the same question to everyone, as we go through, but someone did ask where do you start to look for a job, so if someone wants to look for a consulting job Marjorie where would they look and i'll ask everyone this question.

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marjorie.zeff: yeah I guess you know I think i'm a little older than most of the people here back when I was looking for a job, Joe time ads and newspapers were the way to go, but that's ancient now I I I do see a lot of it, environmental ads in.

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marjorie.zeff: linkedin you know, indeed, all those sorts of.

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marjorie.zeff: i'm you know i'm online i'm.

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marjorie.zeff: Online resources is the way to go, and you know I keep abreast of the job market, so I know those work and so that's that's where you could find those jobs.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Great thanks so much Marjorie and Lindsay so what one piece of advice what really helped you to get the job you have with the main geological survey, so what advice would you offer and then also where should students look to find jobs with the state survey.

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Lindsay.Spigel: um okay well i'll start with the second one um each State surveys is different.

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Lindsay.Spigel: They vary widely some surveys are affiliated with the state's flagship university and so it's um.

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Lindsay.Spigel: You would go to that university and.

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Lindsay.Spigel: You keep tabs on their website, or they might you know post ads with GSA.

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Lindsay.Spigel: and other areas like that I don't i've never tended to see things pop up through like indeed or anything.

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Lindsay.Spigel: But the main geological survey is part of the state government, so if it's that type of state, you would want to.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Keep your eye on.

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Lindsay.Spigel: You know the state job boards and that's what I did I had been keeping my eyes.

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Lindsay.Spigel: On that, for a while, either for the survey or for the dp um so yeah that's the best option for for that um and then how did I get my how did I get my job well.

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Lindsay.Spigel: I think I was a good candidate, because I had a lot of research, experience and that's what they needed they needed somebody who could.

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Lindsay.Spigel: conduct field work independently I work by myself in the field, I am a one woman show I do all of the superficial mapping I do my own cartography and so GIs skills are also very important.

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Lindsay.Spigel: But just being able to having that field experience and and research skills.

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Lindsay.Spigel: were very important, so if you're looking for a research type job get as much field experience, as you can.

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Lindsay.Spigel: And an undergrad instead of going to the beach for spring break I took a field class that went to Texas, you know just as fun, but um.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Do you take as many of those opportunities, as you can go to as many field conferences, as you can like any ngc the geological society of maine has a summer field workshop well eventually we'll have them again in the future, but take those opportunities to.

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Lindsay.Spigel: add some research skills to your list and and build those up over time, those are pretty important.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks so much and for any undergrads that are getting ready to go to their geology field camp this summer GSA does offer $2,000 scholarships for undergrads so.

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Jennifer Nocerino: contact me separately about that and i'll put my email address in the chat and just a moment so you've got that handy so let's move on, then to Julia.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And Julia what would be your piece of information that you would give to students that helped you land your first job and then also where should students look to find out information about in your case the Vermont geological survey.

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Julia Boyles: So much like Lindsay said the Vermont surveys per State Government, so I actually did find my job on indeed so.

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Julia Boyles: The Vermont I guess also advertise on, indeed, but they also have like a separate the state government as a whole has a separate sort of job posting.

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Julia Boyles: website, and you can sign up for updates so like every week or so they'll send out an update of just all the available jobs in.

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Julia Boyles: In state government and so there's there's actually a bunch of different geologists is in state government there's only two of us at the survey.

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Julia Boyles: But there's a bunch of others that work in other divisions so there's lots of opportunities for geology as the in the Vermont state government not not just the survey.

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Julia Boyles: So I would definitely just what everyone else says linkedin.

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Julia Boyles: Indeed, you know the company's website, like those are just good places.

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Julia Boyles: And for getting your first job, I think, starting in school is really good to develop, you know good.

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Julia Boyles: relationships with your advisors and your professors, because when it comes time to.

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Julia Boyles: call back to those people hey can I.

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Julia Boyles: Have a letter of recommendation or can I, you know easy as a reference if you weren't engaged student.

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Julia Boyles: And you like Lindsay said kind of went the extra mile and and tried to pick up some extra experience along the way.

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Julia Boyles: You know your professors and advisors notice that and when it comes time to say hey i'm applying for this job you know.

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Julia Boyles: Can I can I use you as a reference or would you write me a letter of recommendation I think those things go a long way we used to do for me because I didn't realize this, but when I applied for my job with the Vermont survey my current boss, is a geologist.

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Julia Boyles: works with my former Professor.

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Julia Boyles: I went to suny plattsburgh in upstate New York a lot, so he kind of knew me for a second hand through somebody who had taught me and I had done a lot of field experience with so I had sort of I just got lucky I had absolutely no idea when I applied that that was the case but.

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Julia Boyles: i'm just glad that I, you know develop that relationship with my undergrad professor at the time, because it it came in handy a few years later, so that would be my advice like things you could do now in school.

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Julia Boyles: To to try and further that yeah.

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Jennifer Nocerino: it's definitely a small world i've noticed as i've moved through in the session we just had, I talked about my career a little bit and.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And you do sort of run into a lot of the same people, and you have job and move to another job and they all sort of know each other and so that definitely helps.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So Janet i'll post, the same questions to you next, and you know what one piece of information, would you offer to students to help them that helped you get your first job and then where can they look for jobs that would be posted if they were interested in the usgs.

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Janet Barclay: yeah so I mean out.

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Janet Barclay: People have already talked about networking and you know that's super important, you know that was definitely a big part of for me getting connected at usgs.

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Janet Barclay: You know one one unfortunate thing about it i'm not sure if all federal jobs are this way, but with usgs is our openings are usually posted for pretty short period of time.

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Janet Barclay: And so it's really helpful if you have if you know, so if you have developed a relationship with somebody they can give you a heads up of like hey This position was just posted because you may only have a week or sometimes even less to from the time a position opens until it closes.

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Janet Barclay: So a number of folks i've talked about taking advantage of opportunities for research or internships and stuff and.

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Janet Barclay: You know, mostly we've we think about those from the perspective of like gaining those contacts and networking, but I think they're also super important.

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Janet Barclay: Because they give you a sense of different areas where you might want to work or not want to work and it gives some clarity of like oh yeah like I wouldn't have thought of working in that.

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Janet Barclay: kind of sliver of environmental sciences, but after a brief experience in that you might realize oh that's actually fits me better than what I thought I wanted to do like I mentioned in my bio I thought I wanted to do the environmental consulting.

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Janet Barclay: And I didn't actually end up working there, but I think ended up doing a PhD and I think that was where that and then now being at usgs is a better fit for me, then the consulting world would have been.

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Janet Barclay: In terms of where to look for usgs jobs they're all posted at USA jobs, and I can put that link in the chat.

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Janet Barclay: And I noticed that there are a number of.

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Janet Barclay: PhD students in the in the session and we're actually right now have a cluster higher that opens tomorrow, where they're looking for i'm reading the.

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Janet Barclay: blog board i'm not.

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Janet Barclay: connected with this at all, but just got this post, the other day hiring a few data, scientists and machine learning specialist really, and this is really focused in on water data so kind of that sliver of geology but i'll put that post in the chat as well.

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Janet Barclay: So yeah I don't know if I quite got all of the questions but.

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Jennifer Nocerino: that's great Thank you so much, and I think it's interesting the best fit you know I kept thinking, I had gone for my PhD twice and was add all but dissertation both times.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And I kept thinking I needed to go into academia, but it just didn't work, it was like getting a square peg into a round hole and realize that nonprofits were really for me so it's.

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Jennifer Nocerino: it's good to find the fit, I think that works for you so let's turn to Erica and I do see.

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Jennifer Nocerino: A question in our chat which we'll get to in just a second i'll always try to prioritize those unless we're working through a question.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So Erica i'll pose to you now, the one piece of information that you would give to folks to help them find a job, and you know what helped you the most and then where would jobs be posted.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Okay, so I don't want to talk about my first job because it was just long enough ago that really things have changed I got my first job out of college off of an ad on craigslist so.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Will obsolete at this point, but I did just go through the job hunt so i'm going to talk about that, instead, so I was currently in consulting or was previously in consulting I was actually at a con when Marjorie is.

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Erika Amir-Lin: And I wasn't really happy there sorry Marjorie.

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Erika Amir-Lin: But, so I was looking for a new job for variety of reasons, including my boss preparing to retire, so I was, I was under a little bit of pressure and I looked for almost two years for a new job because the market is I think everyone knows is tight.

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Erika Amir-Lin: And I got my current job actually by applying to a job ad which sort of amazed me, but I think the biggest thing that was helpful for me, and I think this is my number one tip.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Everything everyone else has said is awesome as well, and really important but.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Most jobs you're going to be unless you're putting your resume on someone's desk who you already know it's going to be through an electronic ad and all of those systems are horrible they're just horrible USA jobs is no exception.

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Erika Amir-Lin: The State websites all of the private companies everything that everybody uses if you just upload your PDF resume.

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Erika Amir-Lin: it's going to not take it if you put it into the form it's going to gobble it up so spending the time and setting aside the time to really tailor what you're doing to each of the your application is really important, because.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You may have to type everything in a fresh every single time you apply it in a new job your cover letter they're going to tell you, we want it this way that way, the other way.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So being prepared to really work with whatever their system is and understanding that you know, there is.

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Erika Amir-Lin: There is sort of an art to tailoring your resume your experience in your cover letter to whatever not just the job ad but the system that they're using so if they are looking for certain things in that job ad.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know, you want to reflect in your wording of how you enter your experience into the system, if possible, reflect back to them words or phrases or echo what they're looking for in the way that you enter that information.

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Erika Amir-Lin: I found that I had to basically rewrite my resume and cover letter for every job I.

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Erika Amir-Lin: applied for you know there were tweaks that needed to be made, so this job is looking for someone with xyz skills well did I use.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Words related to those skills in my cover letter no Okay, I need to rewrite the cover letter so it's actually a lot of work, but I found it it gets easier, the more times you do it, and it really does increase your.

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Erika Amir-Lin: chances of getting through that first initial electronic cut because a lot of times people aren't even looking at your resume in person until it's been to the electronic system so that's my number one tip.

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Erika Amir-Lin: looking for a job is basically a job in and of itself, so you know pacing yourself and realizing that you're you know you're going to need to.

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Erika Amir-Lin: be set aside time to do these things is my is my big tip and there are lots of great.

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Erika Amir-Lin: resources on the Internet, about how to tailor your application materials, you know cover letter writing resources, and you know what.

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Erika Amir-Lin: How to how to talk about what you're doing with words pulled from the job ad and that was helpful for me because I didn't know a lot of that stuff because I hadn't looked for a job, a little while.

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Erika Amir-Lin: And I think that's what made the difference because otherwise it's going into the black hole electronically, and then you don't know what happens to your resume and information.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So where to look for jobs, I think people have already.

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Erika Amir-Lin: talked about a lot of the really good resources.

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Erika Amir-Lin: linkedin is great indeed equal to those sites, you can set up alerts for job for job titles and descriptions and then get like a digest every few days of new jobs that have been posted that's helpful.

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Erika Amir-Lin: State websites, so I work in mass while I work in Colorado I live in Massachusetts both states have a State website for jobs at the state.

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Erika Amir-Lin: A couple people mentioned that so you can go there and set up a profile and then go back every week and look for new jobs there, so those are great and then also if you have an idea of the realm you think you might want to work in.

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Erika Amir-Lin: professional organizations like the one I work for often have a job board where they take jobs for Members and post them so weirdly I actually got my current job through a posting on the job board at my current job.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So, because I was using their career Center to look for work.

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Erika Amir-Lin: And so, if you have a rough idea of the realm that you like like water or.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know, environmental science in wetlands, there are different in professional organizations, where they post jobs there and then specifically for people who work in HR interested in water there's a website i'll put it in the chat it's josh is water jobs and.

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Erika Amir-Lin: that's a great website to look for water jobs that you might not find other places, and then also idealist which is really hit or miss, but every now and then you could find some nice nonprofit jobs, especially if you're looking for something a little bit shorter term.

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Jennifer Nocerino: excellent, and I have a really quick follow up question for you Erica this came up in the session I was justin and someone said that you know, do you recommend if you're gonna.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Try to have a resume that you can just upload should you do word or a PDF and someone said oh you can't if you try to upload it as word it's going to all the formatting will go away, and you know, maybe do a PDF but from what you are saying you actually rebuilt, it almost every time.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Yes, so I have a I would never upload so often what happens is they have you enter everything into their boxes and then you also upload.

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Erika Amir-Lin: A usually a PDF I Okay, yes, is the best way to go, because the formatting stays the same so I have a kind of like standard resume that I use, but I have a word version of it so it's easy enough to open the word version, make a few changes and receive it as a PDF which word lets you do.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So that's yeah I would never upload a word document and it's just dicey.

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Jennifer Nocerino: yeah okay perfect so we're going to switch to the chat and i'll pose a couple of the questions that are in here, and this first block is for Janet i'm sure you've probably seen these in the chat box there's quite a few in here.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So, first of all, what mode is i'll just sort of asked one, at a time, and you can answer, so what motivated you to go to a federal job after your PhD Janet.

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Janet Barclay: For me, I I I didn't start my PhD wanting a job in academia I, so I kind of I wasn't totally sure what I wanted to do.

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Janet Barclay: In some ways, I chose to do my PhD because it was a job that was within a bicycle distance from home, and it was like there's a lot of work life balances that reasons that I opted for that.

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Janet Barclay: But um yeah pretty early on, I decided to the usgs was gonna be my desired end goal so it's kind of Nice that I ended up there.

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Janet Barclay: And a lot of that came down to you know wanting to work on more of the kinds of projects, but books that usgs were working on and a lot of my interactions with them and.

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Janet Barclay: I quite honestly I really didn't want to have to do all I mean, I still do proposal writing as part of my work with usgs but it's not the same kind of publish or perish and pressure that I felt like I saw among many of my professors.

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Janet Barclay: So.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent so the second question, I see that many people with a PhD go to academia or universities for a postdoc for a couple years, is there any on the job mentorship at usgs for early career staff.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Yes.

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Janet Barclay: So we have a formal mentoring program which I have not been involved with.

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Janet Barclay: And then there's plenty of I found that the senior more senior people in my office have been super easy to reach out to.

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Janet Barclay: A little different with coven i've been working from home for a year, and so you know it's a little harder to.

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Janet Barclay: Get I don't run into them in office, I have to actually like take some initiative and and reach out to folks but everybody's been super willing to you know connect with me.

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Janet Barclay: And there happened to be four of us, and my broader New England office that are in a similar career place and so we've sort of set up an informal peer networking.

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Janet Barclay: So we get together by zoo every well by Microsoft teams by every couple weeks to to connect for for that kind of mentoring to.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent mentoring, is so important, especially early on that's great and how much freedom, do you have in your research at the usgs.

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Janet Barclay: So there's less freedom than in academia, because you know in academia, you can kind of write a proposal for whatever and if it gets funded you get to work on it.

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Janet Barclay: And with usgs it depends what division you're in.

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Janet Barclay: In my role it functions in some ways, like a consulting agency, so we write proposals.

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Janet Barclay: Typically, the projects i've been working on has been funded by state and other federal agencies but it's a writer proposal.

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Janet Barclay: And then you know if it's if it's funded, then we kind of work on that, so I get I have some say in terms of what proposals, I want to write or how I want to exactly craft those proposals.

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Janet Barclay: But it's not as much freedom as in academia.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Okay perfect and then the last question in this block with my PhD where should I expect to be paid more university as an assistant Professor or federal agencies such as usgs or as a hydrogeologist with the usgs.

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Janet Barclay: So i'm I haven't looked at the numbers but i'm pretty sure, academia in academia there's a lot of variation, but I think in general that tends to pay more than federal jobs.

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Janet Barclay: federal salaries are all posted online it's a function of where you live, and what pay grade level you're at with a PhD I started in 11 GS 11 and then you know kind of depends, where you go from there.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent one thing I like about the government is it's really clear what everyone earns because.

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Jennifer Nocerino: there's that.

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Jennifer Nocerino: range and everyone's in that range wherever they are in the country, which is great, I think.

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Janet Barclay: yeah no salary negotiations there is.

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No.

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Jennifer Nocerino: No, and so i'll move on to the next question should I select a graduate project based on similarities to potential job responsibilities.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So, as I read this sissy unless you want to you're welcome to anyone, please, this is very relaxed and informal So if you want to just turn your camera on and say your own question, you can but.

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Jennifer Nocerino: I don't know if you have any follow up there, it sounds like sissy are asking, should you try to match all the job responsibilities is that what you're asking here.

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Cissy Ming: Okay, not exactly I was saying, well and looking into different places, I could go to graduate school and what I would be doing for each of the.

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Cissy Ming: projects that were offered to me I do, I like How important is it to keep in mind like what skills and what experiences employers are looking for.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Okay, so Julia do you want to feel this I saw your hand and if someone else wants to you're welcome to.

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Julia Boyles: I just went through this so I feel like maybe it just fresh in my mind, so my graduate work was an experimental metrology which is like as far away as possible, as you could have gotten from my current job, which is.

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Julia Boyles: More similar to like.

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Julia Boyles: Well there's a lot of like mapping but also environmental almost like environmental consulting, so I think it's important to do something that you're interested in because.

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Julia Boyles: If you are enjoying your graduate work, I think that you will get more out of that experience if if you're really interested in it, and I think just having experienced at all like.

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Julia Boyles: doing research technical writing things like this, you know participating in conferences and stuff like that.

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Julia Boyles: At least in my experience, more what's a little bit more important than like your maybe a PhD level this becomes a little different but, at least for me it was like a master's level what I did for my master's thesis was a little bit.

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Julia Boyles: It wasn't as important as, just like the skills, I gained along the way, that just comes from everyone doing a Masters or i'm sure people have other things, but for me it did not matter at all so.

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marjorie.zeff: yeah i'd like to comment on that I found that.

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marjorie.zeff: i'm at a graduate level with masters and PhD I think the most valuable thing is your skill and having.

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marjorie.zeff: identify the problem and figuring out how to either solve the problem or get certain answers and how to develop a work plan.

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marjorie.zeff: To.

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marjorie.zeff: attain the information that you need to answer a problem I think those school skills are what in the environmental business arm grow just as i'm.

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marjorie.zeff: or even more important, then, exactly what your.

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marjorie.zeff: Your subject your research was although my first job on my second job what I did with salt marsh is was critical but there's I developed in the environmental.

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marjorie.zeff: Consulting arm field and was responsible for hiring people as well if you showed me that you had the skills to think.

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marjorie.zeff: To think in the field to be able to write environmental consulting involves a lot of writing and knowing how to communicate.

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marjorie.zeff: In the right way information to a regulator to arm and environmentally concerned citizen and you always need to be making an argument.

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marjorie.zeff: based on science.

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marjorie.zeff: arm, one way or the other, and those skills um which almost by definition, are developed through graduate work.

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marjorie.zeff: um.

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marjorie.zeff: And thesis writing and defending.

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marjorie.zeff: goes a long way and your subject matter, I agree with Julia love what you're doing get some do something that you really love, and that means you're going to do.

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marjorie.zeff: A better job and develop the skills that you're going to need even better if that makes any sense.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent Thank you.

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Janet Barclay: i'd like to add in you know when it's the PhD level, the focus of your graduate work does tend to sort of dictate the next step not that many people sort of pivot a little bit.

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Janet Barclay: But going off of what Julia said, you know, do something you love and it will likely lead to future work in something that you love.

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Janet Barclay: And you know you don't always have a lot of flexibility in terms of the big scope of your graduate work like there's the opportunities that are.

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Janet Barclay: available to you, which have been usually the results of somebody else's proposals and initial ideas you know your advisors and whatever.

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Janet Barclay: But with almost any graduate experience you have opportunities to tailor that so if you're interested we're not really talking too much about academia here, but if you're interested in that kind of track.

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Janet Barclay: Most universities have opportunities to kind of get some teaching experience, and so you know if that's the job.

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Janet Barclay: track you're thinking of like you can add that to your graduate program or if you're interested in.

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Janet Barclay: outreach or policy, you know thinking those like find opportunities to incorporate that into your graduate experience that are you know that are sort of separate from the specific research topic.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Perfect so our next question as someone who is currently a graduate student in environmental sciences, how is the job market looking now with David and post coven in terms of internships and early careers, who would like to take this one.

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marjorie.zeff: Well, I I could just quickly say being i'm at my level and over the past year or so actually looking into the job market and environmental science.

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marjorie.zeff: I see a lot of.

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marjorie.zeff: opportunity.

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marjorie.zeff: For early styling careers and environmental science and very few for someone like me, who has taken in environmental science, you could go through a managerial pathway.

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marjorie.zeff: or a stair scientists, which has been my with i've chosen to do and because when you get involved with an environmental company.

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marjorie.zeff: They often like to move you through management, I chose not to go that path, and when I when i've seen in the job market for environmental science there's a lot, there was a lot of opportunity for.

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marjorie.zeff: Beginning and junior level environmental scientists, a lot of opportunity and a lot of opportunity for high level people who wanted to be manages that site so, which is why i'm still where I am because i'm doing really well, I want to do.

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marjorie.zeff: So my bottom my answer to your question uh during covered i'm looking forward to post covered, I see a lot of opportunity for starting a career in environmental science so i've seen it.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Now I would add to that I actually agree with that, I think that I do mostly see jobs weighted towards the entry level, right now, you know the zero to six years of experience.

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marjorie.zeff: Nice slot.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So yeah I think as an entry level person or someone just starting.

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Erika Amir-Lin: a career in the private sector, this is not a terrible time but yeah it is thinner in the middle so.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know folks that at my level and up to Marjorie who are looking to move I think there's less but yeah there's definitely companies that have managed to whether coded are hiring and continuing to hire.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent Thank you very much.

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Jennifer Nocerino: next question I was wondering if there is advice.

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Jennifer Nocerino: To have a successful interview or how to have a successful interview how they prepare and what to expect.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Anyone who's interviewed recently that would like to add some comments Julia.

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Julia Boyles: i'll comment on that one, so I started my current job in October of 2019 so i've been.

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Julia Boyles: Like about a year and a half, so please feels pretty fresh sorry that was my dog.

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Julia Boyles: So I think having a successful interview means coming prepared with your own set of questions so like learning a little bit about either the company, the organization agency, whatever it is that you.

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Julia Boyles: you're interested in in working for and coming with a with a list of questions of your own because I found that that.

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Julia Boyles: After you go through some standard interview questions there's usually a portion of the portion of the end where your interviewer will feel like you have any questions for us and that's a really good time to have a more organic conversation, and I think if you have some specific but.

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Julia Boyles: You know.

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Julia Boyles: Good targeted questions that can kind of help you stand out a little bit.

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Julia Boyles: So I would, I would say that, and then, as far as what to expect, I think that varies like at the state government level, they have to ask a standard set of questions for everyone's like they're all the same, so.

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Julia Boyles: For a fair hiring practices so they didn't necessarily pertain to my particular job and that was just my experience with the state government, but I had a few interviews before that private environmental consulting companies and those were very varied, so I don't have.

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Julia Boyles: what to expect I think depends on where you're applying, but I would, I would say, like just trying to be as prepared as possible, like bringing copies your resume or if it's over zoom and you know just.

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Julia Boyles: Trying to you know prepare a set of questions might be helpful.

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Jennifer Nocerino: anyone else, want to add anything.

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Jennifer Nocerino: yeah I can.

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Erika Amir-Lin: I can add a few things I agree, I agree with everything that was just said, definitely there are some places that will give you a standard list where you're like.

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Erika Amir-Lin: This is doesn't really seem tailored to me and that's because it's not and then there are other places where you'll have a three hour interview where they just talk about everything and you're like this seems really disorganized and strange.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So yeah I think I think my preparing, I agree, like preparing a set of questions, based on what you're actually want to know about them.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know, trying to figure out a little bit more, and that does sometimes involve a little homework like trying looking up like.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know, for smaller companies, sometimes you can figure out who actually runs a department, who you might be interviewing with if they don't give you the name ahead of time.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Look them up on linkedin see if they've offered anything you know what do they work on things like that, so you can ask them more direct questions about.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know what they what they do and I always like the question of you know, like tell me what my typical day might look like in this position because.

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Erika Amir-Lin: They might there might be things they're asking you to do that aren't in the job description that you're actually really interested in or you're not interested in at all.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So yeah that kind of homework and then also really hate so corny but you know the standard questions of tell us a time that you failed at something or tell us your worst quality people still ask those questions.

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Erika Amir-Lin: And having a well crafted answer to that ahead of time is really, really good, because you might have a long list of things in your head that you could talk about that you think were failures, but.

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Erika Amir-Lin: really what you want, is something that was only a tiny little failure that you can actually make it sound like a success.

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Erika Amir-Lin: So, because you're there your interviews are a chance to really basically be like i'm great you should hire me.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Because that's really what we all want right it's like we want them to think we're great.

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Erika Amir-Lin: to hire us so.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Planning out ahead of time, some of those answers to what I think of is kind of standard interview questions, as always, helped me a little bit, because if I feel like i'm too much on the spot than my brain goes blank.

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Erika Amir-Lin: either.

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marjorie.zeff: I think it's also you show you, you know you're there to sell yourself, but I think you're also there to interview them.

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marjorie.zeff: And that ties into what you said Erica about asking them what your typical day is going to be like you know ask them questions of what they see you doing.

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marjorie.zeff: And things of that nature and things that matter to you ask them about so that um you know it's like buying a house, there are certain things that.

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marjorie.zeff: Are you're not going to consider that House if it doesn't have this or it doesn't have that you know, having your mind what's important to you about having a job and find out from them what their answers are so.

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Jennifer Nocerino: perfect and then a couple of general comments, I would say if you're.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Driving there and it's in person.

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Jennifer Nocerino: not covered, but you know if you're going to meet them in person, make sure you know how to get there first, you may be drive there The night before.

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Jennifer Nocerino: arrive early early early you never know if there's going to be traffic you don't want to arrive late and be all stressed out arrived extra early sit in your car, if you have to and take deep breaths.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Look at yourself in the mirror before you go in, make sure you're put together and everything's closed and right where it should be and.

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Jennifer Nocerino: That you look appropriate practice as you heard folks say and just be yourself because really the interview, the most important thing is that they can relate to you and that you're genuine and you seem excited Those are all really important.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So our next question how heavily do skills and experience outside the sciences factor into an application is it worth putting them on resumes or in interviews.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And who would like to take this one.

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Lindsay.Spigel: I can do that I answered one in a while yeah.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Please oh.

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Lindsay.Spigel: I think it's a it depends of course on the job you're applying for and what those skills are you know, some people might be interested in, you know just.

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Lindsay.Spigel: What your hobbies are to get a better idea of if you're going to be a cultural fit for the organization, but i'm on the, on the other hand.

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Lindsay.Spigel: You know they might not it might have no bearing at all, but I think one thing that's really important is, if you if you do have other skills, especially you know related to your computer science type skills.

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Lindsay.Spigel: You never know when those might come in handy so.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Maybe they're like oh we're doing this other project, and you know we don't want to hire somebody just to do that, but you know this person could do both the both of those things because they just happen to have that skill um.

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Lindsay.Spigel: So I think like I said before, because I had some GIs skills, I was like Oh well, usually the map is don't make their own maps, but if we hire Lindsay she can make her own maps so that gives me, you know, a leg up so some things that you know.

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Lindsay.Spigel: could be you might not think are directly related to the job they could be it could turn out to be a plus so.

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Erika Amir-Lin: yeah I would add to that anything that is like a.

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Erika Amir-Lin: People skill that you got at another job.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know it, whether you were doing something totally outside the field.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Whether you were in the military before you came back to work, things like that you know pull out the things from those experiences that you feel like would be relevant to the job you're applying for So if you worked in customer service for years.

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Erika Amir-Lin: that's actually an incredibly desirable skill set, because it means you know how to deal with difficult people under pressure and most jobs, require that at some point so try to pull out.

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Erika Amir-Lin: You know those essential elements that you think would map to what you're currently applying for and there's tutorials online for how to make skill based resumes and sometimes that's the right fit if you've done a bunch of things outside the field first.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Perfect I love your comments about you know even dealing with customers and you know it.

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Jennifer Nocerino: You everything you've done as a student or students have done to get where they are these can all be translated into resumes for sure.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So our next question early on how did you go about internships any tips on how to prepare and where to look within your field is it doable while you're in Ms or while you are in an Ms graduate Program.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So anyone has familiarity with internships.

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Lindsay.Spigel: yeah we we tend to have interns at the survey they're heavily dependent on the type of grant funding that we get but um you know we usually post them on our website as soon as we receive the funding.

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Lindsay.Spigel: In terms of doing that well you're in a graduate program I guess it would depend on the type of project you're doing for your thesis and I know when I was in.

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Lindsay.Spigel: In my master's program I was doing my field research during the summer, so that when really allow me.

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Lindsay.Spigel: Time to additionally have an internship and and part of my funding for Grad school was to assist my advisor with field work as well, so it would have been hard to fit in an internship but um.

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Lindsay.Spigel: But it could be doable it just depends, I think, would depend on what you're doing for your week for your thesis project in your in your funding situation.

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Janet Barclay: And I was i'll add to that if you're interested in intern and doing an internship have that conversation with your advisor.

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Janet Barclay: Because.

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Janet Barclay: Not all advisors are able to do this, and not all advisors feel feel flexible, but you know, an advisor that is really doing their job as an advisor is going to want to the extent that they can to help set you up for what's next in your career trajectory.

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Janet Barclay: You know, one point I before I got my internship with usgs I was considering applying to a full time position with them, and my advisor knew that that was.

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Janet Barclay: kind of the career trajectory that I wanted, and she was like no it's not it's not an ideal time, but we can make that work.

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Janet Barclay: Because that would be a good opportunity and that position didn't end up working out we didn't end up having to kind of figure that out, but you know, sometimes advise that they can't always be flexible, sometimes the projects that you're on has to happen in the timing, but.

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marjorie.zeff: I would just add that in the environmental.

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marjorie.zeff: field during the spring summer.

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marjorie.zeff: um when field work really gets going, we need a lot of extra hands and i'm both in the field in the new office writing up the findings of fieldwork and we have summer interns all the time, I personally i'm not sure if we work through individual schools or how.

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marjorie.zeff: Or how we get the hint earns about the environmental sciences groups, the geology groups.

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marjorie.zeff: All during the summer have interns working and many of them for many of them, they turn into full time jobs after they graduate.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks.

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Jennifer Nocerino: and, overall, we find about 60% of people who do an internship will.

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Jennifer Nocerino: remain at that location and will be offered a job, so it's a great way to get your foot in the door for a job.

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Jennifer Nocerino: So the next question I returned to school after about a six year absence and will be receiving my bs in May.

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Jennifer Nocerino: As an older non traditional graduate with only a bachelor's degree how difficult, would it be to find a job Would I be at a disadvantage in the job market based on that what advice, can you give me to make me stand out.

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Jennifer Nocerino: To would like to take this one.

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marjorie.zeff: i'll have to go first shot at it.

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marjorie.zeff: Okay um I don't think it will.

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marjorie.zeff: hinder listen environmental field, I think what we've just been talking about life skills what you've been doing um you know, in the meantime.

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marjorie.zeff: is very important i'm Very often we get um.

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marjorie.zeff: You know, a entry level um.

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marjorie.zeff: A bachelor's degree folks that are a little unsure of themselves, they don't have the confidence that they should have in themselves um and I think as an older person, you have that confidence in you probably demonstrate that you can.

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marjorie.zeff: You know fit well into positions that might require a little bit more responsibility, so I think you can make it work for yourself within the hierarchy of.

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marjorie.zeff: The.

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marjorie.zeff: The hierarchy of of how departments in environmental science companies work.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you any Erica.

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Erika Amir-Lin: I would just add that I think in that position.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Networking becomes really important.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Maybe more important than if you were just coming right out of school, as a young person.

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Erika Amir-Lin: There, the reality is is that sometimes companies will take people right off the top who.

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Erika Amir-Lin: they're looking for a new graduate and that's what they have in mind, and they want someone fresh out of school who's like 23 years old, then that's what they're looking for that's what they're looking for.

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Erika Amir-Lin: And there's no way around that if that's what that specific hiring manager has in mind, but beyond that situation, I think yeah I agree with Marjorie that there are definitely advantages to.

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Erika Amir-Lin: Having years behind you have other responsibilities that you know you can bring to that, but.

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Erika Amir-Lin: I think, in a situation having you know joining a professional organization going, you know going to a local networking event things to get your name out there and introduce yourself to people who might not know you because you haven't been in the field, yet can be really helpful.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you, and you don't see anyone else anyone else, want to comment or.

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Jennifer Nocerino: Oh alright, so the next question how important is obtaining has whopper training and or passing the as bar exam for environmental consulting should these to be completed before someone tries to look for a job.

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Jennifer Nocerino: And I guess, if you want to comment first Marjorie and then we can open it up, I know Erica you were in this arena as well.

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marjorie.zeff: You Well, I can say i've heard a long successful career without doing has weapon, and I have a professional genealogist licenses without taking the exam so um I don't know.

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marjorie.zeff: i'm not sure um how important that is to getting a job, once you have a job to work on certain projects, you need to be has what the train.

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marjorie.zeff: For my own personal reasons, I have had no desire to do that, but we have training all the time folks take it and it's offered you know, through the company so it's not something you need to do right now terms again of.

429
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:20.350
marjorie.zeff: The iceberg exam.

430
01:08:22.540 --> 01:08:23.170
marjorie.zeff: I.

431
01:08:24.460 --> 01:08:38.200
marjorie.zeff: Like I said I guess I think some States might require that for their licensure i'm not sure all states to so, all I can say is that we have a lot of geologists at aecom.

432
01:08:39.430 --> 01:08:47.440
marjorie.zeff: Most of them are not pjs so you could get very far without you know, having that.

433
01:08:49.390 --> 01:08:50.800
marjorie.zeff: But it helps I mean.

434
01:08:51.340 --> 01:08:55.120
marjorie.zeff: it's it's very marketable because they can.

435
01:08:56.440 --> 01:09:07.840
marjorie.zeff: You know, with a PhD comma pj that makes me very marketable in the company, and that is like an internal networking kind of space.

436
01:09:08.980 --> 01:09:16.870
marjorie.zeff: If people get to know you, for whatever reasons if it's because of that marketability you get known and people will.

437
01:09:18.070 --> 01:09:27.610
marjorie.zeff: You know, find out oh can Margie do this or you know I heard about Margie you know so internal marketing in that sense is just as important.

438
01:09:29.200 --> 01:09:30.220
Jennifer Nocerino: As Erica.

439
01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:36.850
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah sure, so I have both my house whopper and my PG can I did get them both the hard way.

440
01:09:38.140 --> 01:09:42.190
Erika Amir-Lin: So I did my house whopper training.

441
01:09:43.330 --> 01:09:50.260
Erika Amir-Lin: It so as Marjorie said, not all positions require it, you have to have it if you're working on certain kinds of sites if you're doing.

442
01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:57.970
Erika Amir-Lin: Waste site cleanup etc, so when I got my first job it was basically one of the first thing they did was send me to training so.

443
01:09:58.540 --> 01:10:05.530
Erika Amir-Lin: I don't think if you have access to take the training before or during your job hunt, you should you can do that it's not cheap.

444
01:10:06.130 --> 01:10:13.660
Erika Amir-Lin: So it's not something I would ever tell someone to just run out and do I don't think it gives people that much of an advantage, but if you have the opportunity to.

445
01:10:13.930 --> 01:10:25.690
Erika Amir-Lin: it's not a bad thing to do, but the expectation is that if you're applying to a job that indicates they'll be working on any kind of remediation site that you would be sent for that by your company pretty soon after joining.

446
01:10:26.770 --> 01:10:31.360
Erika Amir-Lin: I keep mine current I don't do that kind of work anymore, but you never know so.

447
01:10:31.750 --> 01:10:39.190
Erika Amir-Lin: I do keep mine current and if you're working at a company where they want you to be current they will pay for you to take the annual refresher training.

448
01:10:39.730 --> 01:10:56.530
Erika Amir-Lin: And for the PG so the exam is a national exam there are a couple of states, including the state name that have an additional exam that's specific to the State California, is another one, but you have to pass the as bug first before you can take the state exam.

449
01:10:58.090 --> 01:11:07.480
Erika Amir-Lin: It has two parts is an eight hour exam four hours in the morning four hours in the afternoon there are two separate exams, you can take the morning exam right out of school.

450
01:11:07.780 --> 01:11:23.590
Erika Amir-Lin: And the afternoon exam you can't take until you've had a certain number of years of experience of being supervised by another PG usually the mind licenses in new Hampshire it was five years of supervision to which could be substituted for graduate school experience so.

451
01:11:24.970 --> 01:11:33.340
Erika Amir-Lin: You can't even get your license your full license right away, and when you take just the first part of the exam and passed that you become a geologist and training with GI T.

452
01:11:34.390 --> 01:11:37.840
Erika Amir-Lin: which you can be for many, many years until you're ready to take the second part of the exam.

453
01:11:38.350 --> 01:11:48.970
Erika Amir-Lin: But I didn't know about any of this when I was very early in my career, so I did it all at once, took the whole eight hours you know application all that and passed it and became a PG.

454
01:11:49.810 --> 01:11:59.530
Erika Amir-Lin: And so it's if someone had told me about that I probably would have taken that first part of the exam earlier because the morning exam the F G the fundamentals of geology is definitely.

455
01:11:59.950 --> 01:12:04.870
Erika Amir-Lin: Much more relevant to sort of basic coursework and things that you maybe didn't school I don't know if it's a real.

456
01:12:05.380 --> 01:12:12.010
Erika Amir-Lin: advantage to do that in terms of looking for a job again it's probably not bad, but that's.

457
01:12:12.910 --> 01:12:19.540
Erika Amir-Lin: You know the PG I think as Marjorie alluded to, is something as you get further in your career that makes you more marketable internally.

458
01:12:20.170 --> 01:12:32.410
Erika Amir-Lin: gives you a certain amount of sort of like professional importance like okay this person passed their exam and conforms to the ethical requirements of their license etc.

459
01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:42.580
Erika Amir-Lin: So I think if you can take the exam it's not bad to do, because then you've taken it and then you're halfway there yeah and can get around the rest of it later in your career when you're ready for it.

460
01:12:43.420 --> 01:12:47.680
Jennifer Nocerino: And then i'd like to add on to this, I work with as Bob quite a bit sorry Janet.

461
01:12:48.940 --> 01:12:55.270
Jennifer Nocerino: But for has whopper it is pretty expensive, and I would definitely recommend you wait have the company pay for it.

462
01:12:55.900 --> 01:13:04.150
Jennifer Nocerino: As far as those as bog exams there's two of those as Erica alluded to in that first one is your fundamentals exam.

463
01:13:04.510 --> 01:13:10.240
Jennifer Nocerino: And they really recommend you take that either while you're a senior or right after you graduate.

464
01:13:10.570 --> 01:13:15.760
Jennifer Nocerino: This is really information that is directly from the classes, that you have just taken in geology.

465
01:13:16.090 --> 01:13:23.500
Jennifer Nocerino: The sooner you take that exam the better i've talked to a lot of people who've waited you know four or five six years to take that fundamentals.

466
01:13:23.770 --> 01:13:42.160
Jennifer Nocerino: and had to do quite a bit of studying to get caught up again, so you can separate these rather than doing them all in one day as Erica said she did you can do just your fundamentals and then, after having worked several years, then go back to get your PG exam later on, so go ahead Janet.

467
01:13:42.280 --> 01:13:51.670
Janet Barclay: yeah what I was going to say some so I in engineering, we have a similar sort of structure, a fundamentals of engineering exam and then a p.

468
01:13:52.570 --> 01:14:08.140
Janet Barclay: E for engineering exam and yeah definitely take the fundamentals during and I, I had the opportunity, as a master student to take a like one credit review practice course so not only then was, I taking.

469
01:14:08.530 --> 01:14:24.070
Janet Barclay: That fundamentals exam while some of that coursework was pressure in my head, but I also had that academic structure to help me work through the review and all that and I didn't because it was kind of part of my regular coursework I didn't have to pay for that review course.

470
01:14:26.020 --> 01:14:40.720
Janet Barclay: it's also where this isn't directly on those specific trainings but it's also worth checking around potential jobs that you're looking for and seeing what other licensing or similar kinds of things they might require.

471
01:14:41.980 --> 01:14:52.330
Janet Barclay: Soon after my master's I, so I live in Connecticut and I moved here and was looking for all kinds of jobs and discovered that the state of Connecticut has some.

472
01:14:53.620 --> 01:14:59.470
Janet Barclay: they're sort of licensing exams that, but you have to have passed them to be able to apply for positions.

473
01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:11.920
Janet Barclay: But they only and and, basically, I had to basically submit a transcript of what I had done but they only review those every three months, I actually missed out on a being able to apply for a couple positions.

474
01:15:12.670 --> 01:15:21.250
Janet Barclay: Because I didn't know about that structure in time for that, so you can kind of do that advanced research to be prepared for potential openings.

475
01:15:22.690 --> 01:15:25.600
Janet Barclay: If you know more specifically kind of where you want to work.

476
01:15:27.820 --> 01:15:41.830
Jennifer Nocerino: Great and then I will add, also with the these as bog certifications you can use these in any field, so you will find a lot of environmental folks will clearly have these but, but not all, as you've heard.

477
01:15:42.730 --> 01:15:54.610
Jennifer Nocerino: They can be used if you want to be a consultant and you're going into academia, or even sometimes with the government, although you run into conflict of interest, there you can certainly do that.

478
01:15:55.300 --> 01:16:09.700
Jennifer Nocerino: A lot of jobs folks will be involved in any sort of like trial or anything like that, and like signing formal documents you can't sign documents if you're with the usgs unless you're a PG.

479
01:16:10.210 --> 01:16:20.290
Jennifer Nocerino: So that's you know one reason you can't be involved in a trial there's a whole series of things you can and can't do based on that so it's something to look into for sure.

480
01:16:23.140 --> 01:16:37.540
Jennifer Nocerino: So the last question, though, to Mars, so the next question do companies take into consideration the location of a candidate, I live on the east coast would an agency out West and not consider me due to distance.

481
01:16:41.080 --> 01:16:43.630
Julia Boyles: comment sorry, excuse me i'll comment.

482
01:16:44.860 --> 01:17:01.510
Julia Boyles: I applied for my current job out of state, and I just made it very clear that I was willing to relocate and that was that, so I think that if, if you are willing to relocate just make that clear and whether or not your relocation expenses will be covered, as another.

483
01:17:02.890 --> 01:17:17.290
Julia Boyles: Another ball game, but if you are willing to do that yourself just make that clear and then you know with post coven depending on the kind of work you're doing you know, there might be more opportunities for some more remote.

484
01:17:18.580 --> 01:17:21.460
Julia Boyles: Work i'm not sure in our applied field if that.

485
01:17:22.810 --> 01:17:24.250
Julia Boyles: will be quite the same but.

486
01:17:25.360 --> 01:17:31.210
Julia Boyles: I don't know, sometimes it feels like a bit uncertain what the future is going to look like in the human.

487
01:17:34.900 --> 01:17:51.070
Janet Barclay: In job postings on USA jobs there's usually a line that says, whether relocation expenses have been authorized for that position or not, and so that yeah if it's if relocation expenses that have not been authorized like absolutely like Julian Assange make clear that.

488
01:17:51.370 --> 01:17:55.240
Janet Barclay: you're willing to relocate and know that that would then be at your expense.

489
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:21.760
Jennifer Nocerino: Okay, so our next question is there a best way to and, should you cold contact people such as geologists or professors at a nearby school to set up informational meetings or inquire information about volunteer opportunities for research and experience.

490
01:18:27.220 --> 01:18:29.140
Jennifer Nocerino: Anyone want to take that one.

491
01:18:30.310 --> 01:18:40.000
Lindsay.Spigel: um I can we we get a fair number of inquiries about you know internship opportunities and.

492
01:18:41.680 --> 01:18:48.550
Lindsay.Spigel: I guess if you're gonna contact I guess i'd be a little bit different the contact professors usually.

493
01:18:50.380 --> 01:19:00.250
Lindsay.Spigel: People are contacting them to ask about you know their research interests in terms of applying for Grad school and whether or not it would be a fit for you to work with them, but.

494
01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:09.850
Lindsay.Spigel: um I guess if you're In school I would, I would just try and network within your school and try to get as much experience with your professors, that you have.

495
01:19:10.360 --> 01:19:21.490
Lindsay.Spigel: Have there would probably be easier, unless you move somewhere new after school, but in terms of maybe contacting someone at a State survey.

496
01:19:22.870 --> 01:19:30.370
Lindsay.Spigel: Just be very clear about what you want to get out of it, because you know i've had students, along with me and.

497
01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:37.180
Lindsay.Spigel: I don't think that they really knew what they wanted out of it, and so, when they found themselves, you know hike.

498
01:19:38.020 --> 01:19:49.390
Lindsay.Spigel: trekking through the woods with me for eight hours they were a little disappointed that's not really what they what they wanted out of it so be very clear about you know what you want to learn.

499
01:19:50.770 --> 01:20:02.770
Lindsay.Spigel: And you know, try and contact people directly if you can rather than just sending it to basic email like we have this ngs it, you know main.gov and that just sort of.

500
01:20:03.430 --> 01:20:13.390
Lindsay.Spigel: Somebody will get it eventually, but if you can look at the staff and say Okay, you know I want to learn about bedrock geology mapping i'm going to contact that person directly and say.

501
01:20:13.660 --> 01:20:24.400
Lindsay.Spigel: You know I want to learn how you do mapping um you know I have these two weeks available, could I shadow you and be very specific about what you want, and it's more likely to work out, I think.

502
01:20:30.460 --> 01:20:50.230
Janet Barclay: I had some really good experiences cold calling people to set up information interviews so not the shadowing longer experiences that Lindsay was talking about, but sort of about like hey can we talk for a half hour to learn about what you're doing that was really useful for me.

503
01:20:51.820 --> 01:21:04.930
Janet Barclay: And, but I, but I will say it's something that you should start early I mean it's never too late to start it, you know, no matter what but but definitely start thinking early because it.

504
01:21:05.710 --> 01:21:12.670
Janet Barclay: can help pay off in terms of your job search but it's not going to necessary it might pay off quickly, but it may not.

505
01:21:13.600 --> 01:21:22.360
Janet Barclay: You know I I got an email from somebody that I had had an inner information interview with about a year after I had had that call.

506
01:21:23.140 --> 01:21:33.880
Janet Barclay: Saying hey we've got this opening you might want to think about it so it's a it's a great way to learn about the industry and opportunities but also it's a sort of a longer term process.

507
01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:42.040
Erika Amir-Lin: I would just add that a lot of schools, colleges and universities have an alumni network.

508
01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:52.600
Erika Amir-Lin: of people who have signed up to be available for student networking opportunities so it's always worth asking your department or your career Office about that, and those are people who.

509
01:21:53.080 --> 01:22:01.270
Erika Amir-Lin: It would be a cold call, but something that wouldn't be unexpected and those folks are often open to those half hour type interviews that were just mentioned.

510
01:22:03.430 --> 01:22:10.330
Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks Eric i'm glad you mentioned that that's really important so even just practicing your networking whatever you can is important.

511
01:22:11.440 --> 01:22:13.270
Jennifer Nocerino: So oh go ahead.

512
01:22:13.810 --> 01:22:21.940
Janet Barclay: I was going to mention it also following up on, you know people who you here present at GSA or elsewhere, like you know, then you can.

513
01:22:22.450 --> 01:22:33.250
Janet Barclay: start with a hey I heard your presentation and want to hear a little more about this and hear about what your work looks like in general can be a really easy into conversation.

514
01:22:34.990 --> 01:22:48.130
Jennifer Nocerino: Perfect so we have about seven minutes left in our session, and we have been through all the questions in the chat, so why don't we close out we'll work our way through the list and we'll start with a again this time miss Erica.

515
01:22:49.330 --> 01:23:00.520
Jennifer Nocerino: And so what sort of hard career lessons have you learned and if you're early in your career, you know clearly even with your schooling there's something that you've learned that.

516
01:23:00.910 --> 01:23:08.110
Jennifer Nocerino: You know, would be some good advice you'd give to all the folks who have joined us today, so what would your advice be Erica.

517
01:23:12.370 --> 01:23:12.970
Jennifer Nocerino: You have to.

518
01:23:13.930 --> 01:23:16.990
Erika Amir-Lin: Sorry zoom just yelled at me and told me, I was muted.

519
01:23:18.970 --> 01:23:21.880
Erika Amir-Lin: I think my biggest piece of advice is that.

520
01:23:24.160 --> 01:23:27.190
Erika Amir-Lin: If a job is not a good place to be.

521
01:23:28.750 --> 01:23:44.770
Erika Amir-Lin: If it's a bad fit if you have a bad boss if it's a very unhealthy work environment start looking to get out of it sooner rather than later it's probably not your fault with that workplaces like that, and it does take time to find a new job, and I think my.

522
01:23:45.040 --> 01:23:47.080
Erika Amir-Lin: career regrets have often been that I.

523
01:23:47.410 --> 01:23:50.230
Erika Amir-Lin: didn't look for an opportunity rather than that I did.

524
01:23:51.220 --> 01:24:00.520
Erika Amir-Lin: So you know, not every job is the right fit for everybody, and sometimes they're really are problems or problematic people and it's okay to say, this is not working, I need to start looking again.

525
01:24:00.970 --> 01:24:08.320
Erika Amir-Lin: That would be I think my biggest hard lesson is don't see too long, if this is not getting you where you need to be because of who you're working with.

526
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:14.410
Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent Thank you Janet do you have anything to offer them.

527
01:24:16.150 --> 01:24:36.910
Janet Barclay: I think one thing that I would say, is to, and that I need to remember more myself to is to take initiative to reach out to people like every time I do that whether i'm reaching out to you know more senior scientists or fellow kind of people peer or you know younger folks that are.

528
01:24:38.530 --> 01:24:45.880
Janet Barclay: You know earlier career, like everybody responds really well and yet i've forget and it's you know so.

529
01:24:47.440 --> 01:24:59.680
Janet Barclay: And people aren't necessarily going to reach out to you and say like hey how about you do this and how about to do that so don't be don't be afraid to reach out and take the initiative to connect with people.

530
01:25:00.700 --> 01:25:02.320
Jennifer Nocerino: Good point, thank you very much.

531
01:25:03.610 --> 01:25:10.270
Jennifer Nocerino: And let's see where are we I lost my train of thought Julia your next.

532
01:25:11.500 --> 01:25:23.830
Julia Boyles: yeah I think somebody's still in the very early stages, I think it's really good kind of like Dan was saying to just make sure to have really good communication, especially with your sort of like direct.

533
01:25:25.390 --> 01:25:37.090
Julia Boyles: Leadership line so that you're clear on what your job duties are things like that, and like knowing what you're supposed to be doing, and if you have questions like feel.

534
01:25:38.590 --> 01:25:50.740
Julia Boyles: That you can reach out to people on ask because sometimes you know, and if you make a mistake on it, because that's always a better route to go than than the than the other thing, so I think so so far in my career.

535
01:25:52.210 --> 01:26:07.360
Julia Boyles: I learned that communication is key, and you know, even if you don't want to like seem annoying or already send an email to this person like it's better to reach out and just double or triple check something, then maybe making a mistake that you could have avoided so.

536
01:26:08.590 --> 01:26:20.260
Jennifer Nocerino: Far and that's important in the last session I had someone I spoke with who was asking about how often to contact and yeah you it it never hurts to contact votes again never hurts it all.

537
01:26:21.400 --> 01:26:22.990
Jennifer Nocerino: Lindsay any advice.

538
01:26:24.460 --> 01:26:29.710
Lindsay.Spigel: um I My advice would be to be flexible, be patients.

539
01:26:30.730 --> 01:26:40.840
Lindsay.Spigel: Even with a Masters or a PhD you might still have to be the grunt for a while and you know do do the work that you thought was behind you.

540
01:26:41.950 --> 01:26:54.490
Lindsay.Spigel: And I certainly had to do that in my career path, and you know I did something different for a while, until the right opportunity came along, that I that I knew was right for me.

541
01:26:55.960 --> 01:27:02.350
Lindsay.Spigel: And you know if you have a significant other and they have career aspirations as well.

542
01:27:04.090 --> 01:27:07.480
Lindsay.Spigel: it's something that you have to work through and accommodate.

543
01:27:08.590 --> 01:27:20.170
Lindsay.Spigel: each other, and you know if you have a family so yeah just be patient be flexible and know that eventually you'll find the the right opportunity.

544
01:27:22.150 --> 01:27:26.380
Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you Lindsay Marjorie do you have any suggestions or.

545
01:27:26.380 --> 01:27:33.670
marjorie.zeff: yeah just to quickly to build upon what everyone else has said, my hard lessons are.

546
01:27:34.750 --> 01:27:50.200
marjorie.zeff: My hard lesson has been to be true to yourself and deep down, you know if you being pushed in a direction that you really don't want to go and, like, I said to my career, I have been.

547
01:27:51.370 --> 01:27:58.060
marjorie.zeff: encouraged to go into a managerial pathway, which I did not want and i'm.

548
01:27:59.110 --> 01:28:11.860
marjorie.zeff: insisted on going the technical route and it paid off, I was successful, but if I gave in wouldn't have been so be true to yourself.

549
01:28:12.940 --> 01:28:20.800
marjorie.zeff: Like Eric said if it's not working, the way you feel you want it to be like my mom always said to me you're not married to a job.

550
01:28:21.850 --> 01:28:25.600
marjorie.zeff: And i've always kept that in mind, you know and.

551
01:28:26.650 --> 01:28:37.540
marjorie.zeff: trust your gut trust yourself and just one other thing I wanted to mention in terms of contacting people i've found that too often.

552
01:28:38.290 --> 01:28:51.010
marjorie.zeff: emails and phone calls when you could just get up and walk around the corner of your office building and talk to somebody is much better, you know don't don't rely on.

553
01:28:52.300 --> 01:29:01.240
marjorie.zeff: The phone and emails if you have the opportunity to actually have a conversation with someone face to face that could go a long way.

554
01:29:03.190 --> 01:29:08.320
Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you, and then i'll add to that that you know remember you are your best advocates and.

555
01:29:08.980 --> 01:29:19.270
Jennifer Nocerino: Keep imposter syndrome in mind, because you are not going to find a magic job that description that lists absolutely everything, and you can check off.

556
01:29:19.630 --> 01:29:35.740
Jennifer Nocerino: Everything on that job description you're never going to match it perfectly, but remember not to second doubt yourself, you know, try to know to go for things that they aren't you don't match every criteria, you want to go for things that are going to challenge you.

557
01:29:35.740 --> 01:29:37.000
Jennifer Nocerino: So keep that in mind.

558
01:29:37.240 --> 01:29:42.280
marjorie.zeff: and take chances, you know there's nothing wrong with taking chances it's a good thing.

559
01:29:42.820 --> 01:29:54.520
Jennifer Nocerino: Definitely, and so, with that we'll go ahead and wrap up, we have another session similar to this one tomorrow Erica will be joining us for that, but otherwise we'll have different mentors so.

560
01:29:55.180 --> 01:30:02.230
Jennifer Nocerino: feel free to join us tomorrow there'll be it'll be a whole different set of questions and mentors so you're welcome to join us.

561
01:30:02.590 --> 01:30:12.370
Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you all very much we appreciate you showing up and I hope you have a great rest of the meeting, and a great rest of the day goodbye everyone, thank you very much, have a great day.

562
01:30:12.730 --> 01:30:14.740
Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you to the girls.

563
01:30:15.130 --> 01:30:18.370
Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you very, very much mentors we really appreciate it.

564
01:30:19.090 --> 01:30:22.000
Jennifer Nocerino: Take care bye.

Jennifer Nocerino: Take care bye.