RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So with that I see it's nine o'clock so welcome to the john man mentor program and I do see folks are joining us, which is wonderful so i'll go ahead and turn it over to vicki mcconnell who is GSA is executive director.
Vicki McConnell: Thanks thanks Jennifer i'm just going to give a really, really quick welcome and hello to everyone.
Vicki McConnell: These on mentor.
Vicki McConnell: programs usually, when they're in person there's food, food associated with it, but today, you just want to have to eat on your own but.
Vicki McConnell: We just really welcome the students and anyone else early career or anyone that's interested in understanding more about.
Vicki McConnell: Hydro geology and applied science of career opportunities and I definitely want to take an opportunity, right now, to thank our mentors who have taken time out of their Midi.
Vicki McConnell: To come and share their experiences and their insights with all of you so use that resource, make sure you are asking the questions and getting the information that you think are that are going to help you as you.
Vicki McConnell: Look at your career trajectory that's why we do this, this is definitely to this is this is resource rich today so think of these folks is resorts, and again thank you so much, all the mentors which you all get me here in a second.
Vicki McConnell: And the other thing just to say is that the, these are the kind of activities that professional societies do for you the students and of.
Vicki McConnell: course I mean is to put everyone together and to further the geosciences and further your profession so take advantage of it with that i'm going to turn myself off and turn it back over to Jennifer and everyone having.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much vicki I appreciate it, and so, with that, let me just quickly mention this is a.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: event that falls under our rise contacts, and so we asked you to be respectful and inclusive and kind to one another, during our events and in the chats as well.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And we are our program is entirely driven by questions so each of our mentors will briefly introduce themselves give you an idea of their career, so you know what the places they've worked so you have ideas of questions to ask them.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So we'll go ahead and get started with that and once again Erica we're going to start with the a's.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So i'll start with you, if you'd like to introduce yourself and we'll work down this list, as these folks are talking, I am going to put their contact information into the chat for you.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Obviously, networking, is a very important part of your career, and this is now part of your network So these are folks you can reach out to you with questions if you have any so Erica.
Erika Amir-Lin: Okay i'm today i'm ready for you.
Erika Amir-Lin: P first on the list so Hello i'm Erica merlin i'm really i'm happy to be here, some of you are probably virtually met yesterday.
Erika Amir-Lin: So welcome back my background I didn't start as a hydrogeologist I got there eventually my career has been one of those long and winding road once.
Erika Amir-Lin: I did get my bachelor's degree in geology so I started with a degree in geology and then like a lot of people I went into environmental consulting for a few years.
Erika Amir-Lin: And then, when I didn't know what I wanted to do next, I went back to school, which didn't work out so great, for me, life got in the way.
Erika Amir-Lin: But I had the chance to do something totally different while I was in school, I worked for a couple years as a student contractor at the usgs doing seismic hazards work.
Erika Amir-Lin: And then I ended up going back into environmental consulting and that's where I was for number of years and that's where I started to work on.
Erika Amir-Lin: Drinking water type projects and eventually concentrated all my work on Hydra geology related to drinking water.
Erika Amir-Lin: And just last year I left consulting and now i'm at the American waterworks association.
Erika Amir-Lin: Which is a member driven organization not dissimilar to GSA and we provide technical assistance to the entire water sector and I.
Erika Amir-Lin: Definitely interface with those scientists and engineers who want to know, have hydro geologic questions so my whole background is relevant to what I do now.
Erika Amir-Lin: When you can ask me plenty more others there's way more in there, but that's my basic story.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Wonderful Erica Thank you so much, I appreciate that and now matt Dawson will be joining us and, if you want to do a brief introduction.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah hi everybody, my name is matt Dawson i'm GSA education programs manager and i've been working at the geological society of America for.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): A little over 10 years now, and I manage a number of our different education programs like graduate student research grants.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And the geo core America program which provides geoscience work experiences with federal land management agencies and also the scientists in parks program which provides geoscience and other stem work experiences at national park service sites.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And I have a bachelor's degree in geology from caltech and a master's in geology from MIT.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And after finishing my degrees in geology I started pretty quickly down the education path so so my career has been focused on education and outreach.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): I worked as a high school geology teacher or high school geology earth science and environmental science teacher in brockton Massachusetts for about six years.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And then, after that I worked as a naturalist at an environmental education Center in Chandler Arizona for around three years.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And then, after that transitioned into my current role at GSA which is evolved over time and started off with a focus on the geo core and scientists in parks programs and then from there grew.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): into a larger role involving involving more programs so again my focus has been on education and outreach so that's where most of my background lies, and I also.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): support some of our careers programs like today's event that that Jen runs and look forward to answering some of your questions, as we go through this program.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Wonderful matt thanks so much and we had several questions yesterday on internships and so i'm glad you're here today because matt runs several of our internships programs and so he'll definitely be able to address those questions if you have any thanks matt.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And Helen would you like to introduce yourself, please.
helen delano PA: Sure um i'm Helen Delano um I work for the Pennsylvania geological survey i'm not a hydrogeologist but.
helen delano PA: I know those guys said not have crossed paths and dabbled in that area for a little bit so um.
helen delano PA: I grew up on mostly on Cape cod and thought I was going to be an oceanographer when I grew up and discovered when I got to college was going to college that that's not something you do as an undergraduate so um eventually I found my way into the geology department at tufts and.
helen delano PA: graduated with a bachelor's degree from there, took a gap couple of years to figure out what I wanted to do in Grad school and eventually got a master's degree at binghamton university and upstate New York.
helen delano PA: In GEO morphology and settlement ology and what we used to call environmental geology which was sort of more land use planning and working with communities and so forth, and some pure hazard stuff.
helen delano PA: Was job hunting for a couple of years spent a year and a half, through personal, family connections working for the national park service on Cape cod as an archaeologist.
helen delano PA: which I had no training in, but we all look at settlements, and we can describe a measured section which some archaeologist might call a a soil profile.
helen delano PA: And I could make maps and I could describe what I saw so those were useful skills that translated well and I had known some people at the Pennsylvania geologic survey in Grad school because they came up and gave talks and.
helen delano PA: knew the arcane processes of the time for getting a job there, and was on the list and eventually got hired to go to Pittsburgh, where I had never been.
helen delano PA: And do environmental geology for the survey, which mostly meant.
helen delano PA: i'm talking to landowners who had landslides and telling them what not to do, and that no we didn't have any money, but here were the kinds of people they needed to hire and.
helen delano PA: Attempting to work with government agencies to create some zoning and predictable maps and so forth, which i'm still doing 40 years later.
helen delano PA: I no longer in Pittsburgh I no longer do the field work of individual backyard slides but i'm.
helen delano PA: Over 40 years with survey I have.
helen delano PA: moved to our central office in Harrisburg our only other office and covered a wide range of things I have done.
helen delano PA: worked on trying to site out low level radioactive waste site in Pennsylvania, which we gave up on for variety of reasons.
helen delano PA: That got me into playing games with geographic information systems pretty early um I manage the project that acquired statewide aerial photography and lidar for a little while.
helen delano PA: i'm still doing landslide stuff i'm the point of contact, which is a great pride for me of random questions that come in on all kinds of subjects.
helen delano PA: Sometimes I send them to colleagues but it's fun to answer them myself so i'm I say i've had 40 years in basically the same job in state government.
helen delano PA: I know a lot about Pennsylvania I don't know as much about other states, but their commonalities, so I will try to answer questions about employment.
helen delano PA: In state government and maybe federal.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Wonderful thanks so much Ellen I appreciate it and jack would you like to give an introduction.
Jack Guswa: Sure, so my name is jack I went to Franklin Marshall college got a bachelor's degree in geology from there, then got a Masters and PhD from.
Jack Guswa: penn state and geo morphology and hydro geology.
Jack Guswa: And I worked for the US geological survey for about seven years, when I was in Grad school I got involved in numerical modeling it was early stages, I.
Jack Guswa: first started working 1974 which is probably the paleozoic to many of the students that are on this on this session, and so I worked for the survey for seven years.
Jack Guswa: Graham water resources of Cape cod and Graham water resources of the Minnesota St Paul area of minneapolis St Paul area Minnesota.
Jack Guswa: And in 1981 I went into consulting working for larger firms and did consulting until for larger firms until 2004, at which time I went out on my own and formed.
Jack Guswa: jg environmental so it's just me working here, but I interact with a lot of different companies and provide peer reviews and do that you know a lot of sort of stuff so that's my background.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Wonderful Thank you very much, I appreciate it and contact information for all the folks who just introduced themselves are up on your screen but emails more importantly, if you want to talk to anyone afterwards, are in the chat.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Additionally, we just ran a webinar last week on hydro geology and we had 770 people sign up so we had.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Six hydro geologists who answered questions and introduce themselves so if you'd like to watch that webinar it's an hour.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And matt Dawson my colleague has posted the URL for that webinar in the chat so if you'd like after the meeting you're welcome to access that as well.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: As I said, we are driven entirely by questions so we'll go ahead and get started, but please feel free to post something in the chat so that we can ask our mentors.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And so I asked this question yesterday so Erica you're gonna know this, since you were here yesterday, but for everyone else and i'll ask you to join us to say so again.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Tell us about your first job and how you got your first job was there is there a tip you can give to students that helped you land that first job and we'll go ahead and start with Erica please.
Erika Amir-Lin: Sure, and I will give a similar answer to yesterday, which is how I got my first job is a little different from how I got my most recent job so i'll talk a little bit about both because I think things have changed, so my first job out of school.
Erika Amir-Lin: I was definitely in a sort of a time crunch, I graduated and my parents said, if you can't figure out how to stay in Boston you're coming back home, and I said oh God Okay, I need a job, so I actually got my first job and consulting.
Erika Amir-Lin: off of a craigslist ad so that's sort of not how it happens anymore, so my most recent job I found on a job Board, which I think is much more common way now to to find a job.
Erika Amir-Lin: And I applied for that directly through through the job board and was was contacted for an interview, so I think you know, things have definitely changed i've had I don't know good or bad luck in terms of changing career jobs, many times over the last.
Erika Amir-Lin: 1718 years and it definitely has changed so that's that's the way I got my most current job.
Erika Amir-Lin: was going through the online application via aboard and actually funny enough the job board is run by the organization, where I work now, so I was taking advantage of their resources to look for work and they turned out to also post their own jobs they're.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Very cool that's great Thank you and matt Dawson What about you, I guess the teaching would be your first job so how did you end up as a teacher.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah so how I got it was not through a job board or any kind of posting this, this was an example of a job that was that was obtained really through networking.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): I the science department there's a science department in the city of brockton Massachusetts that had a need for teachers.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And I happen to become friends with the current teacher who was there and it was just over a casual conversation we may have been playing basketball or something one day and.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And he mentioned, he was a teacher science teacher and I had mentioned that I had had an interest in education and you invited me to visit a school one day and I came in and sat in on some classes and met the science department chair, who basically offered me a job there on the spot.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And I was still wrapping up Grad school at the time and wasn't quite looking for work at that very moment, but it just everything just kind of.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): fell together so i'd say that I guess the takeaway there is that it was, I think there are a number of jobs that are kind of work that way where it's not officially posted they would have posted it eventually but they ended up not needing to.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And just somebody I knew that I had an interest, and they knew that their department had an eating and kind of put us together and and sold me.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): During the walkthrough of the school and visiting some classes, it just seemed like a really good environment to work in and and it's just right for me at the time.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): But then I had to go through a summer training program I wasn't certified as a teacher, so I went through kind of a crash crash course, so I guess the takeaway there is, it was a job in some ways I wasn't really fully qualified for.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): But found a way to get the qualifications needed in time for for when I would move into the role.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): My first job.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much and i'm also wondering if you could so matt, as I indicated runs GSA has some really robust internship programs and so i'm wondering if you could comment on those mats and.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: You know any any comments that might give students an edge when they're applying to internship programs.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah i'll give a quick plug for the geo core America program, which is a partnership with the forest service and bureau of land management.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And the scientists and parks program, which is a partnership with the national park service.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And you know, there are a lot of different tips I could give to get an edge on your application, I think the main one would be to.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): use the resources that we have on our website and this goes for a lot of employers as well.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Where you know we have a lot of instruction instructional materials, there was a webinar with tips on how to apply.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): So i'd say make the most use, you can out of the resources that are available to you don't wing it don't think you have to go it alone and make it up as you go.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): People employers and programs do want to help you to put your best foot forward so so use the resources that are available, that would be I that's My big.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): overarching tip there and and sell yourself don't don't sell yourself short you gotta sometimes sometimes bragging your application, but bragging in a manner that's founded in an evidence evidence based bragging.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Wonderful thanks so much matt so before we move on to hell and just a quick comment, for I guess, this would pertain also to Erica and matt myself, you know when you have.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: contacts at that do education and outreach and work at organizations like GSA or the American waterworks association.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: take advantage of those folks because we get to know people in the Community, sometimes we know where there's job openings we're here to help you we're really eager to work with you, so you know feel free to reach out to us anytime you'd like.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: With that we're trying to avoid sorry.
Erika Amir-Lin: On the on the internship and I didn't think to mention this yesterday I was thinking about where my old company used to get most of its interns from and.
Erika Amir-Lin: We had relationships with some local colleges and universities and often professors would get in touch with us directly and say, I have some students who are interested, do you have any internship openings and so I think it's worth asking.
Erika Amir-Lin: your department if you're still in school about whether they have internship relationships with any companies.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent and Eric is old company i'm sure you all, you might have caught that you may not have it was at COM, so a lot of environmental consulting companies look for a lot of interns, especially over the summer.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So they're good to reach out to i've seen several chats come in, but we're going to continue through this question first and then we'll move to the chat so Helen What about your first job any tips for our audience.
helen delano PA: You know i'm gonna i'm going to kind of ECHO.
helen delano PA: Something we've heard before, which is that connections are important, I was trying to decide whether to stick to my.
helen delano PA: First sort of professional job or my first geology job and i'm going to stick to the archaeology.
helen delano PA: My mother used to run the bookstore in the National Park visitors Center at the Cape cod national seashore.
helen delano PA: And during the summers I would substitute for her or something when she had you know a lot of the people who work for her were teachers and they had to go back to school early, so I.
helen delano PA: So I knew a lot of the people, she you know hung around within the visitor Center.
helen delano PA: And I went after Grad school and I came back and her friends were saying oh what's Helen doing now that she's out of Grad school, I was looking for a job and they said oh.
helen delano PA: She should look about this archaeological project, and I said oh my God here's somebody else who's confused archaeology and geology.
helen delano PA: which most of us have heard of before, but it was a job I didn't have one, so I filled out the application and I got interviewed and I managed to convince the guy who was running the Program.
helen delano PA: Out of Boston that he could use a geologist, and so my job title was archaeologist and, like all the other archaeology Grad students who were in the summer program I was a shovel foreign key.
helen delano PA: And we went out and dug holes, but we had to locate where we were, and we had to describe what we found you know I learned a lot.
helen delano PA: I got chosen out of two people who wanted to to stay over the winter and work in the lab and catalog artifacts and draw up site maps and save reports.
helen delano PA: For what we'd found, and the next summer I managed the lab Where have we did the same stuff on rainy days and the field crews would go out every day.
helen delano PA: And, by the end of that summer I had gotten the other job that I now basically now have but it's I think the story, there is use your connections, we don't hesitate to use your connections.
helen delano PA: You can't rely on them, I was doing a lot of other looking around but be open to possibilities um I would have never gone looking for a job as an archaeologist it was fun I learned a lot, I have a couple of really good friends, I made those years that I still stay in touch with and.
helen delano PA: I have benefited from that experience in in a number of ways um my job with the Pennsylvania survey Similarly, I knew people.
helen delano PA: Who coached me on how to apply through the Pennsylvania civil service system, which is no longer the way you do it so i'll spare you the details.
helen delano PA: But it was arcane and complicated and you needed to know a few ins and outs of how to fill out an application get on the civil service list wait around for job openings etc so.
helen delano PA: Use your connections talk to people you can't rely on them to find you a job, but you pick up tidbits and pay attention and reach out to a lot of folks.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I love that i'm trained as an archaeologist actually so that's pretty good.
helen delano PA: I decided it wasn't my career, but it was.
helen delano PA: An interesting way to spend a couple of summers in winter.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks Ellen and jack What about you would you like to comment on your first.
Jack Guswa: hour sure I were my first job was with the US geological survey, it was at a time later, I was in Grad school late 60s early 70s.
Jack Guswa: had to take a little break for the army at that time, but.
Jack Guswa: There weren't many schools that offered a program and hydro geology penn state being one of them Illinois was another there were probably every zone, I think probably had one also.
Jack Guswa: So my job opportunities really came through connections that the university or the geology department had with potential employers, so they were either going to be.
Jack Guswa: Companies that were in the water supply business or the US geological survey and I interviewed for some academic positions, but because of my background in model groundwater modeling America modeling and.
Jack Guswa: The Professor That was my advisor is connections with usgs that's and several other penn state students had gone on to work for the water resources division of the usgs so it came through connections that the university had with the US geological survey.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent Thank you so i'm going to move to our chat now we have several questions that have come in, and so the first one.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: As a student preparing to be a hydrogeologist environmental geologists are there other professional associations, other than GSA that students should sign up for i'd like to just comment for our webinar one of our.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Media sponsors they promotional partners, they help us get the word out was I H was, which is the International Association of hydro geologists and I know they do have some job listings as well.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Erica commented on the American waterworks association, as you heard so that's another any other organizations that any of you can think of, where students might sign up to get like job postings or information or perhaps follow to get information.
helen delano PA: um I want to put in a plug for the association for women geoscientists of which full disclosure, I am a past President.
helen delano PA: i'm not very active now but i'm a wg does not specifically have job postings, although they have ads academic ads in their in their newsletters but last I knew they had a resume service which would pair you with somebody to help you work through giving advice on on improving the resume.
helen delano PA: And again if you're in, especially if you're in an area that has a local chapter it's another networking opportunity.
helen delano PA: Again, wherever you are try to find the local geological organizations.
helen delano PA: Pittsburgh has the Pittsburgh geological society they have a petroleum based group they have a chapter of association for engineering geologists Harrisburg isn't quite as as flush, but we have the Harrisburg area geological society, which has a monthly meeting now online.
helen delano PA: and commonly meets with the Association for engineering geologists.
helen delano PA: Engineering geology and hydro have some links they're not identical, of course, but there they cover many of the same concerns so.
helen delano PA: Your local geological society is the place to meet people in the local community who, especially if you don't really want to pick up and move across the country for a new job are going to be.
helen delano PA: have opportunities, I know the Harrisburg area geological society sends out a monthly email newsletter and any new job openings they hear about are listed so.
Jack Guswa: I am being a long standing.
Jack Guswa: career person I have belonged to many and I still belong to many societies, and of course we're stood this can be quite bird some financially.
Jack Guswa: But others other societies that might be helpful for providing leads into career opportunities, would be the national groundwater association, also known as.
Jack Guswa: The Association for groundwater science scientists and engineers, the American Institute of hydrology.
Jack Guswa: that's going to be focusing primarily on groundwater and surface water, the American water resources association is something that I belong to also.
Jack Guswa: And then there are not that this was a much more active area, probably in the 80s 90s early 2000s, but if you're interested in, you know groundwater contamination can clean up and stuff like that many States now have.
Jack Guswa: Their own professional associations New Jersey has one Massachusetts has licensed professional association so.
Jack Guswa: there's there's a an abundance of societies that are out there, that people can make contact with to look for opportunities once you figure out whether you're you know.
Jack Guswa: What the other how you how you want your high to have geology experience to interact with the rest of society, whether its water supply or whether it's contamination those sorts of things.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks so much.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Next, in the chat I see matt Dawson made some comments about Erica great point there if you're looking for internships as students, make sure.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: as many people as possible know of your interests and what you're looking for, because you never know who they might know.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So do make sure you make everyone around you aware of what you're looking for and I one other thing it says be open to possibilities great advice, even if you're not in the exact subject area you're aiming for, did you want to content comments Erica.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah so my previous job that I was at for eight years before my current job was a perfect example of that I had been so I had been working at the usgs on a contract, which ended.
Erika Amir-Lin: It was at the end of the recession, there was no more money being released for the kind of positions I was working in.
Erika Amir-Lin: And I was unemployed for about 14 months and I got to a point where I was literally just telling everyone everyone that I was looking for work and what I was looking for because I just couldn't find a job.
Erika Amir-Lin: And an old coworker found me on Facebook and sent me a message and said, are you looking for work, I heard you're looking for work, we have a position, would you want to come in and interview for.
Erika Amir-Lin: It so perfect example of that of just if I had not you know I just kept opening My big mouth and blabbing about being unemployed.
Erika Amir-Lin: And you know eventually caught someone I knew his attention, who realized that they're there you know they had something that would be a good fit for me.
Erika Amir-Lin: So you know it wasn't an ideal position for me where I originally went back to I eventually moved into a different position, but it was a job.
Erika Amir-Lin: And it's led to a bunch of really good things, but it was not something that I, you know I I was not actively looking for that, because I had already been looking for so long.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: sorry about that.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I popped the chat open and it covered up my whole screen and I lost my screen for a second there.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So I don't see any other questions in the chat So please, if you have specific questions put those in the chat and we'll have our mentors answer those.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: But in the meantime I know students are always really interested in if you're in a hiring position, what do you look for in an applicants and so, for some of our more junior people.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: If you've you know when you're applying to jobs, but also if you've ever sat on a panel where they were hiring.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Could you comment on what you've looked for in applicants and we'll work our way through the whole list why don't I start at the bottom, this time Erica since.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I don't want to pick on the a's all the time, so jack have you done any hiring and, if so, what have you looked for in folks that you've hired to work with you.
Jack Guswa: yeah for many years, I managed the New England office of a of a environmental consulting company and we had about anywhere from 15 to 20 employees.
Jack Guswa: Through the years, and so what I would look for was I our work was very specialized, and so I generally look for people with the master's degree.
Jack Guswa: So that they had some focus after you know normal undergraduate degree, so I thought that having a master's degree.
Jack Guswa: gave them a little more academic experience, and that was better than actually having a PhD because then they had the opportunity to.
Jack Guswa: to frame their frame their work life without being too too focused on a particular topic and then you'd like to know that people have good recommendations, you know.
Jack Guswa: I grades weren't that important, although I didn't want all DS you wanted people to that reasonably good grades, but they didn't have to have always they just and you had to.
Jack Guswa: You know, yes, the recommendations that they the references that they use to where we're important and also some of the hiring I did was.
Jack Guswa: But I knew people had worked for a consulting company, what was the company that they had worked for and what was their reputation so it's sometimes early on in your career, you have to be.
Jack Guswa: Willing I guess to change jobs frequently because because that was the way the market was and this i'm talking now back in the 80s and 90s, when I was hiring people.
Jack Guswa: So I would say, looking for people who who seem to take the profession seriously and we're really interested that was another thing if they really get arrested and I do geology cuz i'm not just looking for any old job that was important to me.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks the excitement really comes through in an interview it's really important.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Helen What about you.
helen delano PA: know I don't directly hired a professional level, but I talked to the folks who do, and I do sit in and have a part in hiring interns um I would echo some of the same things grades are not terribly important but, again, you don't want all low ones, but.
helen delano PA: I look for a balance it's important to realize that in many government hiring situations, and I think increasingly in corporate there are really strict human resources, rules and.
helen delano PA: You need to carefully read a job description and make sure that you hit all the target buzzwords and keywords.
helen delano PA: We recently tried to hire a senior geologist you a chemist and the person we really wanted to hire we couldn't because the job description that we wrote.
helen delano PA: said you had to have a bachelor's degree in geology and this person had a bachelor's degree in chemistry and a PhD in geology exactly in the areas we wanted, but human resources said no, no bachelor's degree in geology you can't even interview so.
helen delano PA: Yes, G grades are not terribly important but um something that happens in government, and I can touch on it later and more detail is that the person who's hiring.
helen delano PA: Frequently doesn't even get to see your application until it has been vetted by someone in human resources, who checks for key buzz words and criteria and so.
helen delano PA: If you are read a job description carefully make sure you hit any targeted specific points, make sure you've looked into the background job descriptions and that you meet criteria.
helen delano PA: And those details are really important, and we need to pay attention to we don't write our job descriptions that way anymore, we now say a bachelor's degree or equivalent but um those are.
helen delano PA: Some of the lessons we've learned in various ways um again, I see a question in the chat about if you're.
helen delano PA: A recent graduate should you still apply for intern jobs, well, it depends read the Rules.
helen delano PA: um if you are planning to go to graduate school with a bachelor's degree and you made serious efforts at being enrolled I could hire you as an intern.
helen delano PA: But if you're totally done and no longer connected to academic I could so again, the rules will vary from place to place but dig in and find out what those are.
helen delano PA: So um I guess that's about what I can say.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Great thanks so much Ellen and two comments I did make yesterday and for anyone new who's joined us today.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: When you're applying for a position look at that ad there'll be keywords in there, put those right into your resume because we do have a lot of filters.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: That your resume i'll go through, and without those keywords again they're not a geoscientist those will be kicked right out.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And the other tip is always try, even if it says not to to do some research and figure out who the hiring geoscientist is, or at least who who any geoscientist is at that organization.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And then you can go ahead and send them a copy of your resume as well, even if it says not to just because you never know, so let me turn it over to matt matt any comments for folks to give them the edge when there's hiring.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah i'll add a few things and again this is mainly from the perspective of our like GEO core and scientists in parks programs, but much of this is applicable to other.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Like internship programs and jobs with federal land management agencies, like the forest service, for example, so I wouldn't hit on a few things grades.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Like jack said, and I think Helen indicated grades are not really the number one thing that that they're looking for, they may use grades as sort of a cutoff point, you know that.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): They have you know 20 well qualified people and they may filter them a little bit based on some like minimum grade level.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And another way grades are looked at is maybe certain courses like if you're looking at we have this hydro geology project at the Cleveland national forest this summer.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And they might not be they might not care so much about your overall grades, but they would probably want to see good grades in in hydro geology related courses so that's an area where I think the grades would come into play a little more also.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): You know the level of interest that the candidate has in the organization's overall mission so again, something that was that was mentioned a little earlier, I know that's really important for our Program.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And kind of having a you know being supportive of the mission of of the public land management agencies, overall, and having kind of an interest in working there.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And then, a couple basic skills, but GIs is something that is sought and a lot of the opportunities that we are recruiting for.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): it's it's I would say, the majority of opportunities are looking for a baseline level of GIs skills and sometimes they'll indicate certain types of software our GIs or Arc.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Arc map or a tablet based one I forget the name of it right now.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And then regarding applying to internships as a student versus non student yeah you just have to look at the Rules, for example, are you programs generally are limited only to students.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): people that are enrolled in it at a university, but our programs GEO core and scientists and parks, those are for current students and graduates as well, so it depends each internship program has its own rules and you just have to follow those carefully and last thing i'll mention is.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): You do in a lot of positions you'll see loads of qualifications listed and if you don't meet every single one of them.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): You might still want to consider applying if you meet very few of them, then I might not bother but but.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): You know the hiring managers put put forth what they would love to see their their ideal and then and then some usually in many cases, at least.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): So if there are a few that you're missing or like you're close on them, maybe you're getting ready to take a course in that in the next term i'd say still go for it because the application process.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): can be instructive and you might still get something out of it and you might get hired who knows go for it.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks matt and Helen already alluded to an answer to another question in the chat and i'll i'll pose it to you as well.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Someone asked about applying for internships that asked for currently enrolled students so.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: If this person's already finished their undergrad degree matt alluded to the fact at GSA we consider an undergraduate someone who.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: is up to five years after undergrad but has not yet gone into Grad school and so, even if you finished your undergrad you may still be considered as an undergrad and.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: may still want to think about internships, or at least reach out and ask if it's worth applying do you want to add on to that matter you think that covers it.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Oh, not much else to add other than just just really look at the specific requirements of the program because they are often different.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): They may have different windows post graduation others might let you in if you're enrolled in a certificate program but then there are some that won't they won't accept enrollment new certificate programs so just just make sure you check the rules very carefully.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much matt and always feel free to obviously reach out to the hiring folks as well if you're applying and Erica did you want to add some comments as well.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah just a couple things I think that's my take a little similar to Helen where i'm not I have not been the one directly responsible for making the hiring decision, but I have been.
Erika Amir-Lin: Part of giving input on candidates and have done, you know, been part of interview panels, but you're not the one making the final decision, and so I would.
Erika Amir-Lin: I think everyone is really covered a lot of the main points I agree with the stance on grades, by and large, and if you did really well in your meat so.
Erika Amir-Lin: school was it was hard for me, I definitely had classes, I struggled in, but I did well in my geoscience classes and so you can.
Erika Amir-Lin: call that out, because that is something you know sort of I think matt was saying that if.
Erika Amir-Lin: You know if there's something specific to what you're applying for that you did really well in it, you know you can list your you know major GPA and then your overall GPA and honestly beyond entry level.
Erika Amir-Lin: grades become less and less important, and I don't you know when we've hired my old job for positions beyond entry level we weren't even discussing grades at that point we were just talking about experience and interest in fit things like that so.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah it's you know it's something as soon as you start getting going in your career, you should take them off your resume because it's not it's not as important, at that point but.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah in general I think everyone's really covered the main points i'll just echo the tailoring your application to the job, the electronic systems, I agree, often things don't get seen by a human until part of the way through the process.
Erika Amir-Lin: and putting that effort into make sure that what you're submitting is really reflective of what they're asking for and I I use the 75% rule.
Erika Amir-Lin: If you think you can reasonably talk about 75% of the qualifications in the Ad you should definitely apply because yeah it's a wish list usually we're looking for the ideal pie in the sky candidate.
Erika Amir-Lin: And then it's just a question of how many things off that list, do we get based on how many applicants, there are so it's worth going for it, if you have the time and the ability to keep applying for jobs, go for it.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I like the 75% rule that's.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Great that's really good Helen did you want to comment.
helen delano PA: yeah just a couple of additional points I like that 75% rule i'm try it's it's very challenging for someone in a student new hire situation to understand the ins and outs of very bureaucratic systems and every State has its own and they're all different, but in ours.
helen delano PA: If you are applying to a job from the outside your application will not even be seen by anybody in the hiring agency until it has gone through him and resources and been scored.
helen delano PA: And we only get to interview the top some number of people, and so, if three people get 100 and you get a 98 you don't get interviewed.
helen delano PA: um if and if one of those three people is a veteran they get the data so it's it's frustrating, but you got to play the game and.
helen delano PA: The other thing is that if three people get at sevens or an 85 and 87 and an 83 and you're the 83, then you get interviewed so you know you never know.
helen delano PA: So I don't want to discourage people from applying, but I also want you to be realistic, that it, you may not even get an interview but um and that might not be.
helen delano PA: Anything that's your fault it's just the way the the other people in the in the list ahead of you fall out so don't get discouraged and keep at it, but um.
helen delano PA: be aware that there are at least in government, and I think increasingly in industries systems that really are not designed to work for you they're designed to work for the Agency and make their lives easier.
helen delano PA: But you gotta you gotta try to play the game.
Erika Amir-Lin: And I would just add to that that I think in this in Massachusetts that is absolutely true, the state system is very regimented bureaucratic, there is a way that has to be done.
Erika Amir-Lin: outside of that in the private sector and in some nonprofit jobs, there is the ability to bypass that system through networking.
Erika Amir-Lin: there's a lot more flexibility in that regard so that's where the importance of connections comes in, because they do there is less of that.
Erika Amir-Lin: That were the processes so prescribed where you know people still have the ability to put a resume on someone's desk and say you should look at this person I think they'd be good for this job, so there is high value in.
Erika Amir-Lin: Maintaining your connections and making new connections, because you know.
helen delano PA: There are long term advantages to sometimes doing that.
helen delano PA: i'm at the stage geologic survey we hire at a pretty high level, we like to have a master's degree.
helen delano PA: um there are other agencies in state government that that higher at at lower and and more entry levels, but if we know that someone is about to retire um we can start keeping our eyes open for candidates and.
helen delano PA: We write the job description that human resources has to evaluate things against and you can't be too obvious, but there are ways to steer a job description i'm towards.
helen delano PA: People that we know exist that we might think we'd like to hire so it's not all bureaucracy, there are ins and outs, but.
helen delano PA: For entry level um those are those are probably not terribly relevant but, as you get a little experience, if you really want to work someplace it doesn't hurt to get to know the people who work there.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Great thanks so much Tyler you had a question in here, and I think we've covered that in reference to internships so i'll go ahead and move on.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: This is from James i've talked to several people on campus and heard a lot of conflicting, but I was wondering if having a PhD is actually a deterrent for organizations and jobs outside of academia, who would like to take this one, I know you're.
Jack Guswa: I guess I speak to it.
Jack Guswa: I never viewed it as a as an absolute deterrent, but it when I was hiring people and make did that for probably.
Jack Guswa: 20 plus years in the environmental consulting business a PhD was not necessarily considered an advantage, I often when I talk to people and.
Jack Guswa: I did my thought, the best thing for us for my company was that we could get somebody at a master's degree and get them some experience and then, if they wanted to go back to Grad school that was fine we had.
Jack Guswa: A couple of people not too many who did go on to graduate school then came back because, by the time they had.
Jack Guswa: didn't have enough work experience to know what they wanted to focus on for their PhD so so so I guess, I guess, I would say, unless you it's a PhD in a in a field that's in great demand.
Jack Guswa: I would think twice about going for it, of course, I went right right on from a master's degree to get a PhD so it worked for me, and it will work for anybody who wants to make it work, I guess, but don't feel like you have to have a PhD to get a good experience job and a consulting company.
Jack Guswa: But if you had a master's degree That would be good.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Helen.
helen delano PA: I would say um again, we would love to hire people with a PhD if they meet, what we need in the skill set and the interest and the willingness again.
helen delano PA: In our agency being flexible is really important, you have primary projects but you're expected to to help out other people and move in deal with new things that come up all the time, so.
helen delano PA: When I was hired by the survey probably half our staff had PhDs now, we have two out of nearly 30 who have PhDs However, most have a master's.
helen delano PA: um so the the sense that you are committed to something beyond a bachelor's degree at the state geologic survey level is a really good thing.
helen delano PA: But in other agencies in state government that higher hydrogeologist and geologists the environmental enforcement agencies pindar looking for people doing engineering geology.
helen delano PA: Some of the healthy Board of health can hire geologists into water quality things of the susquehanna river basin Commission deals with every geology.
helen delano PA: it's probably less important again unless your PhD is really specific, but the other downside to a PhD is that many people expect that their PhD is going to get them a higher salary.
helen delano PA: And in government that's not going to be the case, because the salary is pretty much set based on the job classification.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much Erica or matt would either of you like to comment.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: nope okay so we'll go ahead and move on to our next question then.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: This is from Barbara, what do you recommend for students who aren't sure if they want to go to graduate school yet are there many career options with only obtaining a bachelor's degree.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Additionally, what is the process like when trying to get a research position in which they would offer to potentially pay for you to attend graduate school Thank you and Eric I see your MIC turned off did you want to address this one Eric at first, and we.
Erika Amir-Lin: can have others government, I can speak to the first part of that because I I should not expect I didn't you know get a.
Erika Amir-Lin: position in graduate school where anything was paid, so I don't want to speak to that second part, but the first part, so i'm always very candid about my feelings that graduate school is something you should do when you feel like you really want to know what you want to get out of it.
Erika Amir-Lin: I went to graduate school.
Erika Amir-Lin: Maybe four or five years after I started working I turned out not to have been a great life decision I actually went back in.
Erika Amir-Lin: And finished my masters and graduated with that 12 years after I first started trying to get a Masters and it was a much better experience the second time around.
Erika Amir-Lin: So I think you can always go back to school and there are definitely, especially if you're going into not into academia so into consulting into the nonprofit world etc, I think there are plenty of opportunities for just a bachelor's.
Erika Amir-Lin: And there's time for you to figure out later, whether or not you want to go back to graduate school, you know, there are some companies jack.
Erika Amir-Lin: alluded to this there, I know of some here in Massachusetts where they do prefer to hire.
Erika Amir-Lin: folks with masters, but that's because their work is a little bit more specialized so they're not they're looking for someone to come in and do a little bit higher level work to start.
Erika Amir-Lin: But a lot of companies are looking for entry level folks you know zero to five years of experience to learn on the job.
Erika Amir-Lin: grow into a role, etc, so I would say that if you're not sure if graduate school is for you right away it's okay to wait, you know and they'll it's there for you later.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: With anyone else, like to comment.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: i'll add for myself, I know that I was told I went right straight through as well, and really burned out and ended up leaving after my master's I was going to go for a PhD.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And I was told by someone don't start a Masters or a PhD program unless you absolutely love what you do, because no matter what it is you're going to hate it by the end so if you don't have that like extreme desire to move forward, then it'll, be a mistake.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So i'm going to move on to the next question i'm graduating from my master's soon and i'm trying to figure out whether it's more important to gain experience through internships or push for applying for a full time job.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I found that the job descriptions are often pointed and specific, how should I navigate this i'm interested in these positions but don't necessarily have the direct, specific experience.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: To we'd like to comment.
helen delano PA: I think that there are ways if you are, if you have the breadth of experience that comes with a master's degree you've done things that relate to a lot of stuff.
helen delano PA: Read the job descriptions carefully think about what you do know do a little research um you know.
helen delano PA: 40 years ago I got hired for a job, looking at landslides i'd never seen a landslide.
helen delano PA: But I had worked in glacial settlements, I had worked on, I was a geomorphologist I read about your landslides, I could talk about a few things.
helen delano PA: I knew before I went into an interview that this was a factor I had looked up environmental geology around Pittsburgh area I knew it was a problem, so I could.
helen delano PA: bullshit my way I don't know probably not but I again, it was the 75% question.
helen delano PA: I could talk a little bit knowledgeably I could say well i've never worked in these, but I think these are the things that might be involved in I can do it, though, so you need to be creative, you need to do a little homework.
helen delano PA: And that takes time and that limits the number of applications, you can send in but it produces a higher quality application.
Jack Guswa: You know, I think.
Jack Guswa: Just I don't think one should view, if you have a master's degree.
Jack Guswa: I think you should not feel like I just need to supplement this with an internship before I apply for a job, now there may be internships that could be quite valuable to you.
Jack Guswa: And having done them that would have been good, but I don't think it's almost sounds like you're hesitant to apply for a job.
Jack Guswa: And therefore you're thinking, maybe an internship is something that will help you it might help you figure out what you want to do so there's that's a good reason to do it, but.
Jack Guswa: If you have a master's degree and as Helen said, you know you've gotten a lot of extra experience over a bachelor's degree and so.
Jack Guswa: that the fact that you don't have an internship should not be a detriment to applying for a job, a real job, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take one, if you like, it yeah.
helen delano PA: You have demonstrated that you can follow through you may not have demonstrated that you could show up for an eight to five job or work overtime, or whatever, but you worked overtime if you finished your best so yeah.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah I would just add one more thing to that is that and I mentioned this yesterday, there are tutorials online for making skill based resumes rather than experience based resumes and that exercise can really help you.
Erika Amir-Lin: pinpoint what it is that you know how to do and what you're good at because i'm sure that you know, there are skills that you have that maybe you just haven't thought of yet as employable skills, but they're there.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you, and so amanda has two questions i'll post, the first one, initially, and then the second, would you recommend students take a gap year before entering Grad school and, if so, how do you recommend they spend that gap year.
helen delano PA: I took two years I spent the first year researching programs I had not decided to be a geology major school, I was a sophomore and with required courses, I was kind of scrambling to get everything through senior year.
helen delano PA: um I knew I wanted to go to Grad school, I was undecided between specific sub fields and I hadn't done much homework on the different schools, and it was a lot harder before the Internet to do that.
helen delano PA: So I took a year figuring out where in geology I wanted to go and then I took a year looking into the schools and the professors to work with and applying so I did a two year gap and it served me well.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you.
helen delano PA: And I went to field camp after the second year.
helen delano PA: to refresh my my basic skills.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: sorry about that Helen anyone else, want to comment.
Jack Guswa: yeah I think if you if you have an interest in expanding your education in the hydro geology or geology field but you're just not quite sure which area.
Jack Guswa: you'd like to focus on which you'd like to focus, then I think taking a gap year if you can find some type of internship or short term employment that allows you to make the decision you know Do I really want to be in.
Jack Guswa: You know, focus on geochemistry or focus on interactions between groundwater and surface water, and I think they're probably many opportunities well some opportunities with nonprofits or environmental based foundations, whatever that that could help you.
Jack Guswa: crystallize your your what's your think you want to emphasize in Grad school so taking a gap year to help crystallize your thinking is not a bad thing.
Jack Guswa: provides us wisely.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks, I did not take a gap year myself, and I wish i'd had in retrospect, it would have been a really good idea.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Would you also recommend we send our application to the hiring scientist for industry jobs.
No.
Jack Guswa: No i'll give you a different opinion but go ahead, whoever said, your first.
Erika Amir-Lin: Oh that's fine this i'm interested in your in your perspective, actually, because I know, at least in my old company, and in my current company as well.
Erika Amir-Lin: The without a direct connection they're not interested in receiving a resume outside of the system, but that's yeah so turn to you jack.
Jack Guswa: Well, I maybe I misunderstood the question when she said, the hiring scientist, I was thought that's like the person who's heading up at the department or a group of people who need somebody and you said, if you know them you send your resume to them as opposed to going directly to.
Jack Guswa: The human resources department, I always think that, at least in our case, the people who.
Jack Guswa: I did the hiring for my office so.
Jack Guswa: In our corporate headquarters were down in Virginia so resume coming up for Virginia made much didn't make much.
Jack Guswa: Ben was not beneficial wasn't wasn't as useful to me, as someone who I met and they sent me their resume and I could take it in the other direction, and say I think we'd like to hire this person or at least interviewed them for a job.
Jack Guswa: So maybe maybe I missed some vendors, maybe we're saying the same thing Erica we just decided to have a different understanding of what hiring scientist and.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And I would actually say the opposite of that, all together, because i've run lots of these sessions and matt would know my colleague matt would know Danny caps, who is in Alaska.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And he was one of my panelists once and said absolutely even if it's through USA jobs definitely because they had a situation where.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: There was a young lady who did not use the keywords from that description.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And she applied for a job and they had waited her out in the HR arena, but she was actually perfect for the job she'd happened to send her resume on to Danny.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And he realized, she was perfect and he was able to maneuver the system and get her back into the pool again, and she did ultimately get the job, so I would say it never hurts it's always you know the worst they could do is just not respond and move on.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So i'll move on to our next question, which is what were some extra curricular activities or trainings besides teaching and research that you did when you were in graduate school that were helpful to applying for an internship or a job.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: matt do you want to comment I haven't heard from you in a while and you were mentioning a few things earlier that you think are really good skills for individuals to have to get hired.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah i'll speak rather than from my own experience.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Maybe isn't as relevant like I when I was an undergrad I worked.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): In teaching a little bit at summer camps and like after school programs, and that was something that I think was beneficial to me later on, because I was going into the education field.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): But with our internship programs do core and scientists and parks, some of the extra curricular is that have done well for people, where some of them are a little bit obvious maybe but being involved in like a university like outings group or outdoor club.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Because That just shows.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Some other some additional level of of outdoor skills and and leadership some folks had been had been involved in scouting as well.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): But then also leadership roles in various university organizations, whether it's like a Grad student association or being a treasurer of of a club at your University, which might help impart some finance skills which in some roles in in the geoscience profession is going to be important.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): So those are some things that i've seen with successful applicants.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks matt, and this is trainings as well, and I know you mentioned GIs earlier, which is always a great idea, and even if you're out of school, you know you can always take classes as a non degree seeking students as well.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): There are a lot of online classes and certificate programs for GIs that that a lot of people have made use of, as well.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks matt the stereotypical.
helen delano PA: One for for geology which we probably need to not totally emphasize is the outdoor stuff as you've mentioned, but my husband was a college Professor for.
helen delano PA: 35 years and he spent a lot of time on his grandparents farm and he used to say that anytime he got a geology major who had any connections to a farm they did well, they could.
helen delano PA: cope with the field conditions they could probably fix machinery, they could deal with unexpected events um.
helen delano PA: So mechanical skills um we've I hired a summer intern one year, who had worked in his grandfather's small motor repair shop.
helen delano PA: um you know when you're out in the field of the car breaks it's nice to know that somebody might be able to deal with it, so any kind of.
helen delano PA: Experience that is generally useful in life um can you design equipment can you write a computer program can you.
helen delano PA: You know it doesn't have to be outdoorsy stuff it doesn't have to be hands on but so much of what we do is that, especially in hydro if you're dealing with wells and drilling and.
helen delano PA: Electronic monitoring and rewiring solar panels to monitor stuff if you have some of those skills boy, you know they're hard to get if you don't have some precursor experience.
helen delano PA: So, again be creative and think about what it is you do.
Erika Amir-Lin: I would also add that I think that there is real value in doing the things that really bring you happiness so it's great if you want to join something like outdoor club or whatever, but if there are things that interest you more and you would feel more interested in extracurriculars.
Erika Amir-Lin: as possible to do extracurriculars just to check the boxes and then end up being a sort of.
Erika Amir-Lin: You know joyless applicant where you know you feel like at the hiring process.
Erika Amir-Lin: You know, maybe those weren't the things you were actually interested in, and so you didn't get the things out of them that maybe you could have if they were actually an interest, and so.
Erika Amir-Lin: I think there is value in pursuing extracurriculars that you love, because you will gain skills from those because you will be invested in them so.
Erika Amir-Lin: treasury, you know it's great to have someone who has been involved in running organization, the end of the day it almost doesn't matter what that organization was because what we're looking for is.
Erika Amir-Lin: The organizational experience of having been a leader having dealt with money things like that, so I think.
Erika Amir-Lin: It is, I you know I think what everyone else has said is important, but also, it is also important to do things that you love and care about whatever those are because that also makes for a strong application.
helen delano PA: And I think the the key part I certainly agree with you there, but I think the key part is don't hesitate to put those on your resume.
helen delano PA: and find ways to spin the the benefits of those whatever it is you do.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent Thank you.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So another question, as a follow up to the internship question.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I have heard that to work in government geology positions it's highly valued, to have an internship or other experience on your application.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: For example, i've heard that in si P, can be a great entry point into working with the usgs or no i'm sure we have lots of folks to contact comment on this matt would you comment first since specifically since si P was mentioned.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): It certainly I mean it's it's no guarantee to be To be sure, but it definitely helps it also shows an interest in the mission of serving with the Federal Government.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): And it shows that some level of familiarity with with kind of the federal processes, they just have specific ways of doing things and then, of course, the ability to pass the background check to which, which is something that is worth noting, I guess.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah it certainly helps and we have a number of people who have gone through the SI P NGO core programs and have gotten employment at usgs Noah the EPA and other and other agencies.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): So, again it's it's no guarantee, but but definitely these programs are are pretty well recognized by a lot of the federal hiring managers yeah.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks matt and then Helen you're in government, so what is your comment.
helen delano PA: yeah i'm in state government um.
helen delano PA: We certainly have hired a number of people over the years, who had been interns with us i'm.
helen delano PA: In my small agency that's probably less a this ticks a box on your resume then we know you.
helen delano PA: um, but if you have done an internship in a federal agency or State Agency, then, even if I don't know you I probably know somebody you worked with so it's a way that we can call somebody up and say how was this person was she a pain in the ass in the field was he.
helen delano PA: You know, did he show up for work and was he agreeable and pleasant um you know if all those kinds of things that are somewhat intangible that you learn when you actually work with someone.
helen delano PA: So, in that sense, absolutely it can be an advantage That said, I wouldn't not hire somebody automatically because they didn't have that experience, but it is a plus because it's a way to add add knowledge base to our understanding of the candidate.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: anyone else, want to comment.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: No okay so i'd really like to there's no more questions in the chat So if you have any for our attendees please feel free to add those in.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I do want to address two things that haven't come up yet One of those is the has whopper that's one of our questions that you'll see on our screen and the other is the PG or professional licensure and.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: i'd like to get your take I have my comments that i'm happy to make as well, but i'd like to get your take from our panel on if you recommend they get has whopper.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Prior to applying to jobs and then also about certification as well, and what are your thoughts on certification and when they should start that so who would like to comment first.
Jack Guswa: off.
Jack Guswa: With respect to has whopper.
Jack Guswa: Certainly, at least for the work that i've been doing over the last so many years as a project training was important and early on the companies paid for it and they still do.
Jack Guswa: But sometimes it's if you already have it it's not cheap it's not inexpensive I mean, but if you already have it, that can be a.
Jack Guswa: deciding factor if you're two equally qualified candidates, because a company will say you know I don't want to send somebody out for.
Jack Guswa: A whole week and pay for their course but I don't think it's a a requirement that you have has whopper before you try to work for an environmental consulting company that might do hazardous waste site.
Jack Guswa: it's like work, but it could be an advantage, with respect to the certification if you're just coming out of school.
Jack Guswa: I think you should think about getting certification through one of the professional agencies, but again I don't think for at least from my experiences of my career path through environmental consulting.
Jack Guswa: It wasn't a prerequisite for getting a job, but if someone worked for it afterwards after they were employed that was always a benefit to have the certification.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: that's my for Helen Helen and then Erica.
helen delano PA: yeah I don't have has whopper nobody in our agency and my Bureau does we don't do that kind of work.
helen delano PA: The people in the Environmental Protection Agency, who do sampling and licensing and regulating things do I don't know the ins and outs.
helen delano PA: I suspect jack's advice is good on the professional registration again, my comment on anything regarding state government is going to it's depending on which state you're in they all are different in Pennsylvania, you cannot legally call yourself a geologist unless you have a PG.
helen delano PA: I got grandfathered when the law came in I didn't have to take test um I have no desire to take the test i've never needed to use my stamp.
helen delano PA: um I work under the state geologist who is the only person in our Bureau, who must have it, however, in the regulatory agencies, they do, and the Senior Level people must have it.
helen delano PA: You can you can't get your PGA until you've had five years of experience so obviously the first hires are not required to get it that's the divider on some of the job classifications.
helen delano PA: The thing to be aware of is that in Pennsylvania, in order to qualify, you asked to have had 30 credits of geology including some specific courses.
helen delano PA: Like structural geology and field camp, not all schools teach structural geology.
helen delano PA: Some of our Pennsylvania state schools don't So if you have a degree, but you don't have structure you can't pass you can't get a paycheck.
helen delano PA: So we get people who are four years into a into a job, trying to take structure in an evening course and one of the State colleges that's an hour or half away so pay attention to those things if you live in a state where these are the rules.
helen delano PA: There are two parts to the test that you take in Pennsylvania Pennsylvania subscribe to the as Bar Association of state boards of geology tests so it's the same test across the country.
helen delano PA: Some States have their own test many states have no registration um you need to know which one's your APP.
helen delano PA: If you're just out of school and you're in a path in a State where they find out if you can take one half of the test early in Pennsylvania, you can take.
helen delano PA: The academic part of the test before you have the experience and I would recommend you do that before you forget all those metamorphic mineral names that you may never look at again.
helen delano PA: Because you'll need them for the test the experience part obviously comes after five years, so again it's pay attention to where you are and what the specific rules in your area are do a little research on those things.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks Alan Erica.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah Helen covered a lot of it so i'll speak to have her first I largely agree with jack on this.
Erika Amir-Lin: it's a nice to have but most companies will still train you if they want you to have it and there's a lot of work where you're like to do the work you're required to have it, so they they have to provide it to you.
Erika Amir-Lin: To do the work I have mine I got it as part of my first job.
Erika Amir-Lin: it's a 40 hour certification so it's a full week of class and then there's an eight hour annual refresher in order to keep your certification and although I know I haven't done hazardous waste work in many years.
Erika Amir-Lin: I go to my refresher every year because it's one of those things that once you have you don't want to lose because it's 40 hours of your life again if you need to start over.
Erika Amir-Lin: And you never know right a job might come up where you want to move into a new job and they say Oh, we really would like, if you had this.
Erika Amir-Lin: So the eight hours in my companies have always paid for that for me to keep that once I had it so it's yeah it's nice to have, but it is a lot of money and I wouldn't recommend that you run out and get it.
Erika Amir-Lin: So and honestly just because you have it doesn't mean that you're suiting up.
Erika Amir-Lin: You know, in a bunny suit every time you go to work, what it really means to promote positions is that you're.
Erika Amir-Lin: You understand that you're working at a site where there are things that are potentially hazardous contaminated and so that you have the qualifications necessary to work at those kinds of sites, even if it just means gloves and safety glasses.
Erika Amir-Lin: As opposed to something like wearing a respirator.
Erika Amir-Lin: And then, for the the registered certified geologists, so I am a PG I have mine through new Hampshire I did mine, the hard way I did take the exam I didn't know anything about PG certification when I graduated.
Erika Amir-Lin: It just wasn't something my department told me about I didn't.
Erika Amir-Lin: i'm the only scientists in my family I didn't really know any other working geoscientist so this just wasn't something that I found out about until I was you know, maybe gosh you know 10 years into my career.
Erika Amir-Lin: And at that point, of course, you know that yeah I had to study for the test and go through the whole process from the beginning, and I would definitely recommend.
Erika Amir-Lin: Based on my own studying experience that the there's two of the as bug exam is two for our exams and the fundamentals, which is the morning exam you can take after you graduated from college and.
Erika Amir-Lin: I would echo Helen and say yes it's definitely cramming some of that stuff back in your head after you haven't used it for 10 years is harder than I thought it would be.
Erika Amir-Lin: And ever so the whole the asthma does cover all states that have a license and then some states like California name and a few others have an additional exam that you then have to pass in addition to the ass blog so new Hampshire just has.
Erika Amir-Lin: The this the national exam and, for me it wasn't so much about getting that was much more, I would say about my internal work at that point so.
Erika Amir-Lin: You know within my company it opened up opportunities for me, because now, they could.
Erika Amir-Lin: Better sell me on larger projects where they wanted someone who had a license because it does give you the ability to examine and stamp documents in new Hampshire and.
Erika Amir-Lin: places like mean they do some kinds of projects, they actually require documents to be stamped by a PG and if you don't have one on your project that can be a problem when you get to that phase of submitting reports so.
Erika Amir-Lin: it's definitely you know, allow me to move up within my own company and then you know out sort of out on the job market is a slight advantage but, again, it really depends on what work you're doing.
Erika Amir-Lin: And where in your career, you decide that that's the right time for you to go, but to Helens point every state is different so new hampshire's requirements for applying are different than pennsylvania's are different than California is, and it is worth looking at those.
Erika Amir-Lin: Also, just to know what kind of supervision, you need to have so if you've never worked under the supervision of the geologists then some of your work might not be eligible.
Erika Amir-Lin: For APP for applying for that five years of experience, but it was you know i'm glad I have it overall it's been something that was a positive for my career and I wish i'd gotten started on it earlier.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much Erica so I always like to have this brought up, especially for undergraduates, in particular, as you heard.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: That we highly recommend that you look at getting your GI T or your fundamentals exam done either why while you're a senior if you've completed all of your.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Primary courses to get your geology degree or very quickly after you graduate because it really is sort of all of the material you've learned, while you are a student.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And so the earlier, you can do that, the better, so do keep that in mind, maybe reach out look at the standards are slightly different at every state.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: As Bob always has a booth at all the GSA meetings, and you can always reach out to them look at their website and they've got all that information available to you.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I also want to bring up a comment that was in our chat that clementine made it says some schools do offer discounts for students for has whopper.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So make sure you check with your department, if you want to get certified prior to getting a job.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So definitely you know just like, with your job search reach out to your department and try to find out what they have available, they may be able to give you information on taking your fundamentals exam for as bug as well, so definitely talk with them.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: We now have about 10 minutes nine minutes left, so I guess just to wrap it up i'd like to work through our entire panel.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: and ask you, you know what are your sort of hard career lessons that you've learned, you know if you could go back and do it over what.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Are to our students who are undergrads right now what what piece of advice would you give them that you've learned at this point in your career and i'll go in reverse order so let's start with jack.
hmm.
Jack Guswa: well.
Jack Guswa: I think.
Jack Guswa: The best thing for my career was I was always a geology but I was going to focus on GEO morphology and in.
Jack Guswa: Glaciers but then I had this is back in the 70s, Vietnam era and had the lottery, and I was had to go into the army and while I was in the army, it.
Jack Guswa: gave me a chance to rethink what my interests were and plus my PhD committee had left or my advisor had left, and when I went back to penn state I.
Jack Guswa: I felt I wanted to go back and I thought I would should major hydro geology because I was interested in the.
Jack Guswa: The water supply aspects of it, although that's not really where my career ended up, it was mostly in grammar to contamination, but so I guess my hard life lesson which turned out to be a blessing was having to go into the army back in the early 70s.
Jack Guswa: Not that that's going to help anybody else out.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And things like that i've enjoyed my career very much and as long as you.
Jack Guswa: Like what you're doing, I think you can make it work.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: that's so true Helen what would your comments be.
um.
helen delano PA: Similarly, in some way is um you never know which door you open and which doors behind you will close um but.
helen delano PA: If something looks interesting and is appealing I did encourage you to go explore it um I had no idea what I was getting into when I moved to Pittsburgh.
helen delano PA: I drove out there sight unseen I talked to the people in the office on the phone and somebody said, you can sleep on myself until you find your department and.
helen delano PA: I only had a couple of weeks to close one job and started another, and it has been a good decision um I had a sense that the agency was good, because I knew a couple of people who worked in it.
helen delano PA: My state geologic survey people tend to either leave in a couple of years because it's not their their cup of tea, or they stay forever.
helen delano PA: Lots of us have had 40 years of experience um, but there are other things, there are other people I know who come and they just now, this is too academic this is too slow, we can't do other things.
helen delano PA: um state government has a wide variety of possibilities there are regulatory agencies, there are policy agency is there are.
helen delano PA: Transportation agencies, there are museums, there are educational things um it's not a bad place to be.
helen delano PA: I would have made a lot more money in industry, but i've had good benefits i've had a solid job it's secure i'm at my level of seniority I ain't going to get fired i'm not even gonna get furloughed because of co a coven.
helen delano PA: So.
helen delano PA: It gave me the flexibility to move my husband was a college Professor we didn't get married until I was 10 years into my career.
helen delano PA: It gave me the flexibility to have a child and have a solid enough predictable enough schedule I wasn't out sitting on drill rigs and so forth.
helen delano PA: Take care of things um I say the trade off in in salaries, the versus security and benefits, has been good for me.
helen delano PA: It might not be everybody's cup of tea, but you need to look at those kinds of life balance issues too um if you are energetic driven go getter you want to work in in a booming growing field, then maybe State Governor isn't your home but it's been good for me.
helen delano PA: it's worked I could think back and yeah I could have made different decisions and vendor things, and so what I don't know what would have happened.
helen delano PA: But be open to possibilities learn about things and.
helen delano PA: it'll work out.
helen delano PA: And you know you it's possible I haven't done it, but people to change jobs if you find something that's not your cup of tea, there are ways to change and find something different.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Excellent thanks Alan.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: matt Dawson matt would you like to add some comments for me.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): yeah a couple of quick ones, one is to prepare ahead and but know that things are going to change and very and unexpected things will arise, but when I was an undergrad and I was an undergrad student I was just.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): working toward Grad school, then in Grad school was working through Grad school and I didn't really think.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): Much beyond that and I wish I had and I don't have like big regrets or anything but but um.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): But I could see having thought about my career path, a little more in advance and just being prepared and then be ready for opportunities as they arise because you never know.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): When they'll come they might come at an unexpected even an inconvenient time and there may be times, you have to decline, an opportunity for sure.
Matt Dawson (he/him/his): But I also think a lot, a lot of good can come by by being ready for them when they when they do when they do come up so being prepared.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks matt Erica.
Erika Amir-Lin: yeah, this is a nice I think follow on to what matt just said, I think my heart career lesson over the years, has been.
Erika Amir-Lin: That it is okay to leave a job.
Erika Amir-Lin: And that sometimes staying too long, is actually detrimental to you and your career.
Erika Amir-Lin: and your health and that it's okay to start looking if you think your job isn't working for you, if you're have a boss that's difficult or the environment at work.
Erika Amir-Lin: Is not letting you progress in your career it's it's good and okay to start looking and figure out what else is out there.
Erika Amir-Lin: And, leaving a job is not the end of the world, and there are times, where I would encourage people to leave their job, so I think that's been my hard lesson is maybe I there have been times, where I stayed.
Erika Amir-Lin: A little too long in a work situation and let let some other opportunities pass me by without realizing that would have taken me a little farther so.
Erika Amir-Lin: that's, I think, but you know this point in my career i'm a little more proactive about things like that, and I think you know the sort of having an ear open to what's happening out there is good but yeah don't be afraid to look if things aren't going great for you.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thanks so much Erica and just From my own perspective as well, I would say that you know I always felt that I needed to be in academia that's you know what my background was and I love teaching.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: And you know, the more I learned the more I realized, who I was I realized it just wasn't a good fit for me i've always loved nonprofits because you know you can teach I can.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Work with students and help people and so keep your mind open because where you think you need to get a job or where your advisor tells you, you need to get a job may not be.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: At heart what you would enjoy most so with that I want to thank all of our mentors for your time we really appreciate it Thank you so much, and to all of our attendees Thank you did you want to add a comment jack.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: I was just saying you're welcome Thank you.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: So thank you so much, we really appreciate you all being here and I hope you have a great rest of the meeting, and thank you very much good luck to everyone in your career.
Jack Guswa: All right, take care.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: Thank you.
RISE GSA Jennifer Nocerino: bye everyone thanks so much.